Topping off with R22 alternative.... - Page 4
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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,918
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    I think that GA's point is that we, as an industry, should have paid closer attention to what the writing on the wall said and made the leap to 410a sooner.

    But, Nooooooo, we cried, whined and waffled about high pressures and hygroscopic oil. We didn't want to learn anything new, we just wanted R-22 back.

    We sold customers new R-22 units right up to the deadline and we're still doing in in some places and some cases. Are we stupid?

    Educate our customers. Teach them the benefits of a new system that has been PROPERLY sized, designed and installed and that is PROPERLY maintained.

    This generates more business for all of us, gives us a better public face and ultimately leads to a better trade for all of us to work within.


    Please don't take offense at this. My comments are in no way directed towards you specifically, but to the trade in general.

    The only constant in the world is change. Deal with it or be overcome by it. Those are the choices. Many in this trade have been overcome.

    You're right for the most part.

    But........There are many people who don't want, cant afford or are unimpressed with warranties that usually only include parts and come with expensive labor charges after only one year. New equipment has been plagued by faulty high efficient motors, TXV problems among other things, and have not impressed me for one. The vast majority of people that I see choose to spend a relative small amount of money a year for refrigerant rather than thousands for a new system. Or would rather just change the condensing unit if they can, especially if their indoor units are only a few years old. There is a big market for people who don't want to spend thousands. Personally, I make a nice income from it and have many happy customers as a result.

  2. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by miamicooling View Post
    the stuff is cheap and is very flammable..be careful!
    thanks for the reply...but I don't think personal web page links are allowed here
    Last edited by k-fridge; 03-21-2013 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Remove links

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,502
    Miami cooling What is the refrigerant your using for a replacement.
    Trying not to be a Hack.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,247
    This isn't about topping off R22, but it does pertain to the side discussion about recovering R22 mixed with another refrigerant.

    While I'm no fan of leak sealers, I found that NuCalgon's Easy Seal uses 2 oz of a hyrocarbon as a propellant, so it may result in a failed recovered refrigerant ID test.

    BTW...Cliplight's Superseal doesn't use a propellant.

    http://johnstonesupply9.com/docs/EAS...20NUCALGON.pdf

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,502
    r22a is explosive I don't think I would use that on anything.
    Trying not to be a Hack.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,760
    Quote Originally Posted by hvac5646 View Post
    You're twisting my meaning.
    Pot = Kettle

    Enjoying being on the other end this time...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    State College, PA
    Posts
    986

    Don't Forget

    Will the manufacturer warrantee the compressor with that replacement refrigerant?

    Not sure if they care though, they don't even want them back any more. Just give them the Serial # and they get you a new one.
    Can someone please explain to me -
    Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to do it twice?


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  8. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by hvac wiz 79 View Post
    Topping off as in mixing the refrigerant? Hell I've never knew of any refrigerant we could mix in the field but some of the old dogs may know otherwise.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    Manufacturers said not to top 12 with hot shot. Been doing it for years with no problems. Have not used any of the 22 alts but as soon as the boss buys me a jug I'm gonna try it on my old package unit. They us a different oil but if it ducked it up I can scrap it so its win win.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,235
    Quote Originally Posted by 7011tech View Post
    Manufacturers said not to top 12 with hot shot. Been doing it for years with no problems. Have not used any of the 22 alts but as soon as the boss buys me a jug I'm gonna try it on my old package unit. They us a different oil but if it ducked it up I can scrap it so its win win.
    Yeah, it's a win/win for you, since you don't give a crap about rules or laws or correct procedure or anything. As mentioned earlier, though, it is not a win for that guy that follows behind you and gets to pay the charge for turning in the garbage mixture that you created.

  10. #49
    Im going to be using dupont iceon mo99 (R438A) for retrofitting systems that have mineral oil. It has the lowest capacity loss of all of them aprox 5 to 10%. I will also be buying United refrigerations own private brand Thermal Zone condensing units, which is basiclly a rheem product. They are offering those units with polyoester oil. So I can then use R407c as my refrigerant. It is the closest to R22 with the least capacity loss.

    Also what will be the going rate this season for R22?
    We will be charging $70.00 per pound.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    243
    let me see if I have this right ,the 22 manufacturers probably are selling 22 jugs to dist for maybe 250 the dist sell it to us for about 500 we sell a jug to our customers for about 2000,wow no wonder nobody trusts us.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,235
    POE oil is compatible with all refrigerants, so you should be ok there.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mid GA,USSA
    Posts
    61
    I am looking for a cheaper alternative as well. I just have a problem with paying 4 or 5 hundred bucks for a cylinder of R-22. As far as selling new R-410 units goes. We've been doing that as well, But we've had a fairly large call back rate on those units. Mostly all leaks and when we finally find them they usually wind up being the evap coil. It does seem fairly limited to package units for some reason though. We put a new gas pack in for a lady about this time of year in 2010. It didn't even make it through the first season before we were back out there looking for a leak. Finally found the leak and replaced the evap coil under warranty in the fall of 2011. We had to go back out there a couple of weeks ago and charge it up again. She's probably got over $1000.00 just in labor and gas since we installed it. How are we supposed to sell that to a widow on a fixed income?

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