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  1. #1

    Topping off with R22 alternative....

    ... I am in a debate with a friend over replacement R22 options.

    He insists there is an alternative refrigerant that you can top off an existing R22 system with. I am skeptical: although I have read mfg claims to this affect I never paid attention.

    Your experiences would be welcome.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Richland, WA
    Posts
    238
    From what I've seen and heard, there is none that you can just top off with other than R22.

    All the R22 replacements you have to change the filter drier, and anything with a o-ring on it. Plus reclaim all the refrigerant that is in the system.

    I have used MO99 on 1 refrigeration (walk-in cooler), 6 RTU AC systems.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,367
    Topping off as in mixing the refrigerant? Hell I've never knew of any refrigerant we could mix in the field but some of the old dogs may know otherwise.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

  4. #4
    Just read some the specs on alternative replacements for R22...
    the alternatives maybe topped off after the old R22 charge has been replaced.

    I do believe this is what my colleague was getting at.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Ky
    Posts
    264
    Bottom line is you can't mix them.
    What refrigerant would you have after you'd Recovered?
    LN

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
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    5,821
    Quote Originally Posted by larnot View Post
    Bottom line is you can't mix them.
    What refrigerant would you have after you'd Recovered?
    thats easy you take 22 and multiply by 407 then divide by the ounces of 407 you charged.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    66
    I just attended a Dupont refrigerant seminar. You can not mix. You can top off M099,a certain percent. I can't remember what percent (m099) off the top of my head.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Ky
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by SBKold View Post
    thats easy you take 22 and multiply by 407 then divide by the ounces of 407 you charged.
    That only works in Florida because of the humdititty...thought everyone knew that!
    LN

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,139
    All of the "correct" answers have been given already, however, if you are in a large bind (or are just a lazy hack), I doubt anything bad would happen if you mix refrigerants in small amounts, as long as the p-t charts are close for both of them. The system would probably work just fine.

    The problem is, I believe this is against the law according to the EPA. Also, it creates an issue when it comes time to turn in the used refrigerant mixture, since the reclaim company will likely have to destroy it and will charge you a lot of money to do so. This means that if you mix the refrigerants, and the next guy unknowingly recovers it and tries to turn it in, he will get a not so nice surprise. Also, it could cause warranty issues if the compressor manufacturer finds out.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    24,998
    This has been a misconception since the R-12 phaseout.

    To my knowledge, there has never been a refrigerant that you can "drop-in" on top of a phased-out refrigerant.

    The ONLY correct way is to recover, evacuate and recharge with new refrigerant.

    Once you start mixing your own refrigerants, you are operating outside of manufacturer's guidelines and, if anything really bad happens, you could be on the hook for it legally.

    Do it right and walk away confident.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by hvac5646 View Post
    Just read some the specs on alternative replacements for R22...
    the alternatives maybe topped off after the old R22 charge has been replaced.

    .I do believe this is what my colleague was getting at
    Thanks for all the replies.

    Never mixed refrigerant in my entire career Dont intend to start.

    But since R22 hit the $500 mark it is now time to say
    good bye to it and decide on a alternative.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    5,821
    Have your customers call me I have plenty of it and plan on being stingy with virgin and recycling it for my customers when it doesnt have to be totally replaced. Yes I can even clean up burned out stuff.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ripley, WV
    Posts
    1,132
    Quote Originally Posted by larnot View Post
    That only works in Florida because of the humdititty...thought everyone knew that!
    It will still work elsewhere, but below 2000 ft above sea level you have to charge by liquid, and below 2000ft it has to be vapor.

    On a serious note: The serious answers are all good information.

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