R22 Replacement

[Abrnth3]

What are all of you doing for a replacement for R22?

[gsxrsquid]

In what way? If it is an R-22 system that needs charging I use R22. If the system needs replacing then I go to a 410 system, assuming HVAC.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Lots of threads on this... do a search.

[Abrnth3]

ok, did not see any thing first troul around will look again. Boss is looking into replacing some outdate equipment around campus and ask me my imput, 410A was the only replacement I could think of right off hand. Was interrested if there was any new refrigerant that may be a long term replacement. Lot of the guys I work with do not like the high pressures of 410A.

[ga-hvac-tech]

If the equipment is still good.... there are replacement (NOT drop in, NEVER mix R-22 with something else). Most require recover, N2 flush, new LL drier, replace schraders, then charge with new. Some play acceptably with MO, some need POE. Most operate similar to 22, yet at 85-95% capacity.

There are lots of threads on this recently, I think I have posted at around 5 or 6.

Personally... Install 410 equipment. Solves lots of problems and is a better value for the customer. Higher pressures are not a big deal... just follow proper safety procedures we should be doing on 22...

[gsxrsquid]

Yeah, they said the same thing when R22 came in and started replacing R12. I don't know what is available commercially but the new big refrigerant should be CO2.

[Abrnth3]

Was wondering why we don't use more ammonia systems? Seems like this would be more enviromentally freindly.

[gsxrsquid]

until you get a breath of it.

[juststartin]

Not trying to be smart. But a r-22 unit shouldn't have anything else used in it. If a system needs r-22 on a regular basis, its probably time to replace it with a R-410a system.

[Abrnth3]

at least when you breathe ammonia you know to get out of the area. Breathing R22 isn't any better.

[hands]

407c is also used in many systems. The pressures are close to R-22. I was told by a Supply House that 410a will start being phased out in the next 5 years due to its cause of the greenhouse effect.

[valdelocc]

.... I was told by a Supply House that 410a will start being phased out in the next 5 years due to its cause of the greenhouse effect.

Thats a good one! did you get a good laugh out of it?

[ga-hvac-tech]

407c is also used in many systems. The pressures are close to R-22. I was told by a Supply House that 410a will start being phased out in the next 5 years due to its cause of the greenhouse effect.

That 'story' has been going around for a while... I will believe it when the EPA approves a replacement and starts phasing 410 out. There will be LOTS of time to make the transition.

For now: 410 is the residential juice.

[rscamaro]

at least when you breathe ammonia you know to get out of the area. Breathing R22 isn't any better.

The problem with an amonia system is that breathing anhydrous ammonia will in all likelyhood, ummm put you in the hospital or kill you. Nasty stuff if you aren't carefull with it. I wouldn't want an ammonia system in a residential situation.

,,,Ron

[OhioTech]

Dupont M099. You loose capacity. If the unit is undersized,dont use it. Us on exv,txv system. Replace any rubber o rings.

[mark beiser]

Thats a good one! did you get a good laugh out of it?

Don't laugh to hard, Europe is already transitioning to HFO refrigerants, as well as systems that use a transcritical CO2 cycle. There is even transcritical CO2 equipment in use in the US in some applications, and you should start seeing HFO refrigerant using refrigeration equipment in the US soon.

At the AHR expo, there was at least one Asian manufacturer showing a trans critical CO2 heat pump SPLIT SYSTEM!

[valdelocc]

Don't laugh to hard, Europe is already transitioning to HFO refrigerants, as well as systems that use a transcritical CO2 cycle. There is even transcritical CO2 equipment in use in the US in some applications, and you should start seeing HFO refrigerant using refrigeration equipment in the US soon.

At the AHR expo, there was at least one Asian manufacturer showing a trans critical CO2 heat pump SPLIT SYSTEM!

Sure all that "trascritical HFO" is slowly coming this way but 410a is not going anywhere any time soon.

[rscamaro]

Don't laugh to hard, Europe is already transitioning to HFO refrigerants, as well as systems that use a transcritical CO2 cycle. There is even transcritical CO2 equipment in use in the US in some applications, and you should start seeing HFO refrigerant using refrigeration equipment in the US soon.

Hey, that's great. Just something else for the EPA to regulate and tax. Have a leak? $50 fine, have to recharge, $500 fine, don't keep records of what you use, $50,000 fine. CO2 is a greenhouse gas now, isn't it? Congress aught to have a field day with it.

...Ron

[ga-hvac-tech]

Misplaced the link... Seems a study was done: The world used to be a LOT HOTTER than it is now... with a LOT LESS CO2 than we have now.

As usual... the enviro wackies are wrong... So what else is new...

[EMETH]

I remember techs saying the same thing when we went from R12 to R22 for A/Cs.

If your campus has more cash than they know what to do with, go with new 410A units.

Worry later about tree huggers getting 410A phased out.