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  1. #14
    Just a thought, have you considered two-stage equipment?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sacramento,ca
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by rucomfy101 View Post
    Just a thought, have you considered two-stage equipment?
    I have and don't usually use it unless i am zoning. In our area we either have nice days in the70-80's or it is 95 -110 outside it seems and the equipment rarely runs on low thus making the additional investment more than 20 years on repayment. I would say 99% of all equipment installed is single stage for this reason around here.

    Besides the equipment, whether two stage or not should still not be oversized.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tidewater Virginia
    Posts
    139
    97 deg dry bulb and 69 deg wet bulb 1% design temps for cooling... No wonder you don't need dehumidification!!! 23% RH explains why most of your systems don't run until it gets rediculously hot outside. Around my neck of the woods, 23% don't happen until the dead of winter

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    south florida
    Posts
    197
    If you get the job, have them sign something that says you advised them, up front, of a better way to go and they refused, based on non-professional hear say. You don't want to end up owing them money or free service based upon them refusing your professional recomendation.

    Home efficiency and indoor air quality is becoming a bigger market. You don't want some home inspector or energy auditor to come along 3 month or 3 years down the line and throw you under the bus for the home owners ignorant decisions. Cover your butt, on paper.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sacramento,ca
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by bearfromobx View Post
    97 deg dry bulb and 69 deg wet bulb 1% design temps for cooling... No wonder you don't need dehumidification!!! 23% RH explains why most of your systems don't run until it gets rediculously hot outside. Around my neck of the woods, 23% don't happen until the dead of winter
    Where did you get all the information from? Is there some site that tells you that info for different areas? Our low humidity is nice most of the time but it makes you skin dry all winter because of it.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Coachella Valley
    Posts
    1
    I think most homeowners have felt the effects of an oversized system without knowing it. Find symptoms related to oversized systems and ask the homeowner if he has ever experienced them. Even if he has only experienced a couple, let him know that there are all sorts of comfort issues as well as equipment issues that go hand in hand with over sizing systems. Bigger is not better. Most homeowners, and a lot of contractors make this mistake because the existing equipment just isn't cutting it so they assume it's too small.
    Stuffing five tons of AC into a conditioned space that doesn't need it is going to cause him all sorts of headaches. If you install this guys systems you better wash your hands of that customer real quick because guess who's going to be doing all the warranty work when it breaks in a couple years? We all want the revenue from a good sale but not the cost of a poor install. Do them and your company a favor and refuse the work if he doesn't listen to you. You are the "expert" after all.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,434
    The big advantages customers will get from correctly sized equiptment is quiet operation and even tempatures. Customers that have never had never had these are used to furnaces coming on blowing them out, then shutting off until they freeze. They don't know what it's like not to have to fiddle with the thermostat constantly to compensate from tempature overshoots. If the system is done right the customer should never know when thier system cycles unless they are watching/listening for it.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,812
    i would offer and explain the sizing and reason for the downsize . i wouldnot get into a argument and would install the larger size if the HO wants it its not that big a deal in a dry enviroment
    We really need change now

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    north georiga
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by eric1589 View Post
    If you get the job, have them sign something that says you advised them, up front, of a better way to go and they refused, based on non-professional hear say. You don't want to end up owing them money or free service based upon them refusing your professional recomendation.

    Home efficiency and indoor air quality is becoming a bigger market. You don't want some home inspector or energy auditor to come along 3 month or 3 years down the line and throw you under the bus for the home owners ignorant decisions. Cover your butt, on paper.
    the problem with that is as the licensed professional you can still be held responsible

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sacramento,ca
    Posts
    196
    Update: the homeowner listened to reason once I got them away from their "expert" contractor. Part of my persuasion was to offer them a personal company guarantee that the system would cool to acceptable expectations or i would change it at no charge to them for up to ten years. Gotta stand behind your recommendations no matter what. That convinced them immediately once I was willing to stand behind it for so long even with the generals so called expertise advising against my so called undersizing.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Just make sure you manage their expectations, especially since it's a larger home. IT will take a long longer to heat up and cool off than they might be used to. To recover from a 5F setback in 2 hours, a home that large would need 2X the proper equipment size. The realistic expectation is 1) multiple zones with staggered setbacks 2) using setbacks primarily for comfort and limiting them to about 2-3F and getting your savings from proper equipment sizing.

    Having a comfortable and efficeint system is like imagining having a car with an on/off switch not a modulating throttle. TO make it comfortable ot ride in an get good economy, it will need an engine as small as possible. If you want the equivalent of a modulating throttle, you'll need a zoned chilled and hot water system.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Here and there
    Posts
    4,806
    Quote Originally Posted by rucomfy101 View Post
    Just a thought, have you considered two-stage equipment?

    Seems like the simple solution to me.
    i belong to peta ... people eating tasty animals. all my opinions are just mine.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    East Grand Forks, MN
    Posts
    1,375
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettservices View Post
    All of us submitted our bids before the homeowner provided the title 24 (manual J) Docs so we were all shooting in the dark.
    This is what happens in cases like this when shooting in the dark. I really couldn't help you because the proposal has already gone out in what you promise them.
    Basically it looks like you're trying to change the proposal if I'm understanding you. It's kind of late now.
    But, maybe you can lessen their warranty to one year due to the issue your having now..

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