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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Dallas,Texas
    Posts
    4,948
    Well I'm glad things are working out for you. I don't imagine I'll be stumbling accross you in the next few days.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    This is what guys who don't do controls don't understand. They see a guy with pocket screwdriver and a laptop and a cable hooked to a box, and maybe they are not dirty that day. They have no idea, no idea, no fuggeeeen idea how behind the scenes, how much work and how much dedication and sacrafice goes into the real work.
    Well said. Why I don't want to discourage those who want to do this, it's good to take a good look at the whole picture. If you are the right kinda person the migration won't seem that bad. Please, please, please don't try it until you are on point with most hvac system operation and fully understand consequences of improper control strategy. We do not need any more computer guys with no mechanical knowledge.
    "It's always controls"

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,907
    Lots of good insights here. I'm glad I asked!
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  4. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Several Miles from Sane
    Posts
    1,457
    Timebuilder,
    Check your email. It's a start.

    Man of Many D's (I like that reference), nice post, well put.

    I have been doing controls (all phases of it) for going on 19 years. I love the variety and I hate when I get my a$$ whooped buy the dang things.

    As a wise man once told me (you made a similar statement in your post) "Fear the man that doesn't know what he Doesn't Know".

    Too many of the Power Gamers/Laptop Jockeys that get into controls try to BS their way through and end up costing somebody a lot of money in the end. They won't admit what they don't know ! I will take an HAVC Tech with commercial experience over a "Computer Geek" (see power gamer reference above) with an assoc. degree in computer science any day ! The guys/gals with real systems experience ( the ones that have wrenches, Meters and Gauges) understand what the equipment actually does and WHY !

    I honestly believe anybody that knows how a 70's vintage 30ton RTU works, both the refrigerant side and the electric controls side, can make it in controls if they are not afraid of a computer (laptop).

    My 2 cents worth !
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Carolina Piedmont Area
    Posts
    449
    This may be off the topic slightly, however this web site is definitely good free info for those who want to learn the intricacy's of basic electrical and controls

    http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
    But I am still learning and looking for a new mentor.
    _______________________
    In a strict sense troubleshooting is not part of the repair..........understand the symptoms and you will find a solution.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    947
    Bump

    I like the info put up so far, with a bump, maybe we will get a few more morsels.
    TB, I'm talking to JCI right now. If I get something I can pass along, I will. Maybe I can trade for whatever you just had emailed to you. :-)

    These guys also would rather teach a computer savvy guy with a great grasp of mechanical, than get a guy with computer and networking degrees and teach him about mechanicals.

    Ill keep you updated.

    Numba

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6
    I am also a new guy learning controls. Luckily I have secured a position with a company that is sending me to factory classes, and given me a mentor that is insanely helpful. For me, knowing how the equipment is supposed to run is super beneficial. I worked in residential and now with this jump to commercial and industrial, my head is spinning. You are probably a lot more experienced with that aspect than me though. One forum poster, osiyo, has a great website that I have been reading. https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=0554c...74EC47C396!105 I'm not sure if that link has been posted, but it is a great educational resource for me! If you read this osiyo, thank you!

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,375
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay View Post
    One forum poster, osiyo, has a great website that I have been reading. https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=0554c...74EC47C396!105 I'm not sure if that link has been posted, but it is a great educational resource for me! If you read this osiyo, thank you!
    No problem. That's what it is there for, people who want to learn.
    A site where I stash some stuff that might be interesting to some folks.
    http://cid-0554c074ec47c396.office.l...e.aspx/.Public

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,907
    Quote Originally Posted by ascj View Post
    I don't know, but I would think I would start off by learning the integration and installation of the products your company is putting in. Before diving into the custom programming end.

    Do you have list of products that you are supporting? I probably have some info for you.
    We are not installing.

    We have sites where controls exist, and part of my job is to determine if we have a controls issue or some other issue. I report, someone then decides.

    The job I am looking for will allow me to have sufficient exposure to the systems to determine a course of action, and then take it. In my current job, everything gets a quote, and sometimes, a return visit IF the quote is approved. Often, commercial retail customers will call in someone else, who will install a bunch of jumper wires and declare that they have "fixed" the problem. yeah, right. I went to one such store that had jumpers for cooling on every Novar ETM on the roof. My service call said "store too cold." Naw, really?

    As I mentioned in the first post, only the boss gets to have a laptop with software (metasys) because it is "not necessary" that I know anything about "that stuff."

    That's why I am trying to better prepare myself for the NEXT job. One where hopefully, the service manager doesn't have a friend lurking that he wants to bring in. (sniff)
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Stumptown,USA
    Posts
    1,250
    www.carrier.training.com click on training materials. Hey timebuilder have you checked out Carrier? They have a lot of training in powerpoint format. The supermarket service company I work for installs Emerson CPC energy management systems. I also see Danfoss systems in supermarkets and the old Comtrol. I wish I could be more help but I have never been a "controls guy".
    Challenge yourself, take the CM test --- Certificate Member since 2004 ---Join RSES ---the HVAC/R training authority ---www.rses.org

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,110
    I think it was mentioned before but the Honeywell Grey manual is a good starting point. I like to start my guys with teaching them to understand sequences of operations. Make them write out the sequence for everything. I start them with something easy like the sequence for a door and keep moving them to more difficult things. Eventually, I will ask them to sequence a split system with no heating and so on. Then I use that Parallax system to get them to learn how to make a sequence of operation into a program and so on. Some learn fast some learn slow.
    If you're too "open" minded, your brains will fall out.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    50
    Highly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/Building-Autom.../dp/0826920128
    Written for the NJATC (IBEW apprenticeship program) and Cisco Networking guide. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470901071

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,907
    I do work in Delaware, but I think most companies would not want the travel on a daily basis. I'm about 90 mins from the Christiana mall.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







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