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  1. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by arniehvac View Post
    One entry asks how do you get any cleaning fluid in, and that is a good question.

    I have poured in solvent when the line was big enough, and I have around somewhere a little container with a screw top and fittings at both ends for small systems.

    However, I think that the amount of oil in the bottom of the compressor of any factional horsepower compressor can absorb anything left in it. Recently I have not been doing much to clean the little ones and have not had any problems - just like I used to to years ago!

    You have got to clean big systems. Even purging with nitrogen is going to leave crud all through the system. Just do it safely, however you do it.
    Flusing the LL, I use a 3/8" Imperial Eastman Process Stub Kit.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Process-Tube...item460d69848c

  2. #54
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel87829 View Post
    To the guy who said lenox engineers say use r22... that's way beyond deminimus. And id say a crime

    Sent from my LGL35G using Tapatalk 2
    I copied a page of one of my Lennox install manuals for an XC17. They do indeed want you flushing with R-22, as my Lennox tech rep also advised me. Don't need the tech rep to tell ya though, it's right on page 15 in the install manual. I guess no one reads manuals. Now whether or not it's necessary, idk. It wouldn't be a big deal if R22 wasn't so expensive.
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  3. #55
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    Oct 2002
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    Lexington, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well if you were changing out a condenser or a compressor then I would agree with you but if you are changing out a 22 system with a 410A then both ends of the line set will be exposed to the air for a little while at least and then it wouldn't matter if you used air to push the flush through it.

    Your going to pull a triple evacuation anyhow and that will take care of it. Thank you, thank you very much
    I think you may be forgetting about how air compressors and air tanks sweat. You are basically taking a chance of pushing droplets of air into the lineset. That is a lot different from just exposure to ambient air. A triple evac should get it out, but the evac times will be longer. Plus, who wants to have to carry an extra tank on the truck? Just use nitrogen and be done with it.
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  4. #56
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    Oct 2002
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    Lexington, NC
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    Is GA a Natural Gas Heating state? Talk about a boom. Everything we do is risky, and even if there is no air available for an explosion behind the cleaner, it has a pipe full of air in front.
    Just wait till we start using Propane as a refrigerant like over in Europe. It's coming, as we all know 410a is not a solution to our environmental problems.
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchvac View Post
    Is GA a Natural Gas Heating state? Talk about a boom. Everything we do is risky, and even if there is no air available for an explosion behind the cleaner, it has a pipe full of air in front.
    Just wait till we start using Propane as a refrigerant like over in Europe. It's coming, as we all know 410a is not a solution to our environmental problems.
    Not sure about the whole state... however to not have N/gas in the metro Atlanta area is RARE, out on the edge of town and in the mountains is another story. Some folks us LP, many use HP's.

    AS one goes south of Atlanta, the climate gets warmer quickly. I remember in April 2 years ago going down to Warner Robbins (S of Macon, middle state). Temps in Atlanta were 80-ish; down in middle GA temps almost reached 100D and DRY.

    I hope we NEVER go to Propane as a refrigerant... that is just STUPID thinking IMO.
    Last edited by ga-hvac-tech; 03-23-2013 at 06:49 PM.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  6. #58
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    Jun 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchvac View Post
    I think you may be forgetting about how air compressors and air tanks sweat. You are basically taking a chance of pushing droplets of air into the lineset. That is a lot different from just exposure to ambient air. A triple evac should get it out, but the evac times will be longer. Plus, who wants to have to carry an extra tank on the truck? Just use nitrogen and be done with it.
    Yeah well I have a pancake air compressor but don't carry it on the truck. Been thinking about using CO2 since you can carry 5 times the amount of gas in a tank than N2 since it is in liquid form. Last a long while.

    Anyhow I used to work at NC Finishing Co in Spencer in the 70's along the Yadkin River. Lexington is just a few miles on the other side of the river. Was in the NG in Lexington after getting out of the Army. Liked the country fine. Textiles was going down hill so I got out. Lived in Lexington long? Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them."
    Barry Goldwater

  7. #59
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    Oct 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Yeah well I have a pancake air compressor but don't carry it on the truck. Been thinking about using CO2 since you can carry 5 times the amount of gas in a tank than N2 since it is in liquid form. Last a long while.

    Anyhow I used to work at NC Finishing Co in Spencer in the 70's along the Yadkin River. Lexington is just a few miles on the other side of the river. Was in the NG in Lexington after getting out of the Army. Liked the country fine. Textiles was going down hill so I got out. Lived in Lexington long? Thank you, thank you very much
    That is an intersting point about the CO2. Ofcourse they are using CO2 as a refrigerant as well, which would make me think that the pressures will change with the temps moreso than Nitrogen, so I don't know how good it would be for dependability in a pressure test, not that Nitrogen doesn't change a little pressure with temp, but it isn't dramatic. In school they tought us that Nitrogen pressures don't change with temp at all, but I see otherwise in the field (pressure droping makes me think I have a leak, pressure rising tells me the instructor was wrong). Nitrogen is good because we can use it for a variety of tasks, which means more room in the truck. But a point to argue is that I personally carry 2 Nitrogen tanks, so having something in a liquid that could be toped off from time to time would be better than carrying 2 tanks. And thinking a little more, I wonder if the O2 portion of the chemical makeup would take away the ability to prevent oxidation when brazing copper.

    As far as lex, you are correct on all counts. I have lived here all my life, on the north side of the county. I work a fairly large area which includes but is not limited to Lex. Eventually i will need to narrow my radius down, but I would rather drive a little further to a job than be sitting in the shop because I don't drive 2 miles past a certain point. When I do jobs in Lex, it tends to be for people that have moved here recently or ones that have had bad dealings with company X, otherwise that market is pretty well sold to a few company xes. We have considered moving out to the coast, but I have so much family around here and the business has set roots. And I purchased a building 2 years ago that further tied me to the area. Cost of living is low, and from what I see it seems that one runs into the same stuff about everywhere you go. Make more, spend more. In this business I have a feeling that no matter where I would go I would wind up with the same lifestyle and activities. Charlotte would be a good area to make really good money, but I imagine the losses and cost of living would even it out.

    As far as using Propane for refrigerant, I think that is in small quantities. What we have to look at is what refrigerant can be used that DIYers will not be able to obtain or at least tend to stay away from trying to use. With Propane, most DIYers have have enough common sense to stay away from it, or at least that is what they tell me on service calls. That seems to be a point where they draw a line as they know the potential dangers. With CO2, not so much. So the question is do we want to loose the refrigerant side of the market. The balancing point is that as time goes on there are less people with mechanical abilities that know how to fix things, so maybe it won't be such a problem for us after all.
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  8. #60
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    Look at the PT chart for r744.

    A 250# pressure is equal to about -8F

    The pressure changes at typical system test pressures would be no different than those seen with nitrogen.

    I've used CO2 for years.

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Look at the PT chart for r744.

    A 250# pressure is equal to about -8F

    The pressure changes at typical system test pressures would be no different than those seen with nitrogen.

    I've used CO2 for years.

    Trying to work this out in my head, so don't bash. Sat temp at 250# is -8, but that is the temp when we have both liquid and vapor. Above -8 will be all vapor. That is all SAT temp tells us is when we are at the point of 2 states.
    But if the temp were to rise 20 degrees during a pressure test, which easily happens with a black coil in the sunshine, what type of pressure increase would you see from the CO2.
    Nitrogen definetely can show an increase in pressure with temp, but I will say that I have found that if I purge the line of air and have nothing but nitrogen in the line- the pressure seems to hold steady.

    The other question is can CO2 be used to "sweep" the line when brazing. I guess that question is CO2 an inert gas?
    Just trying to establish if CO2 is as versatile as Nitrogen. If it is, and takes up less space at the same or less cost, then I will likely give it a try sometime.
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  10. #62
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    Sep 2008
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    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchvac View Post

    Trying to work this out in my head, so don't bash. Sat temp at 250# is -8, but that is the temp when we have both liquid and vapor. Above -8 will be all vapor. That is all SAT temp tells us is when we are at the point of 2 states.
    But if the temp were to rise 20 degrees during a pressure test, which easily happens with a black coil in the sunshine, what type of pressure increase would you see from the CO2.
    Nitrogen definetely can show an increase in pressure with temp, but I will say that I have found that if I purge the line of air and have nothing but nitrogen in the line- the pressure seems to hold steady.

    The other question is can CO2 be used to "sweep" the line when brazing. I guess that question is CO2 an inert gas?
    Just trying to establish if CO2 is as versatile as Nitrogen. If it is, and takes up less space at the same or less cost, then I will likely give it a try sometime.
    No bashing.

    That 250# and -8F point is just that, the pt point on the chart. At that point, it is saturated and can theoretically exist as a liquid, a vapor and at all points in between. Below that point, it is a liquid, above it, a vapor.

    Above that temperature, the pressure changes the same as nitrogen would.


    Yes, CO2 can be used as a purge gas during brazing. It isn't perfectly inert, but neither is nitrogen, really. What matters is that it is chemically inert under the conditions that we use it, and both gasses are.

    Vending machine grade CO2 can be a bit 'wet' but is available in "Coleman grade" and "bone dry" which are as dry or more so than nitrogen.

    Some like to argue that CO2 is not a good purge gas, but I have used both and defy anyone to show me a difference in a joint purged with nitrogen and one purged with CO2.

  11. #63
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    Oct 2002
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    Lexington, NC
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    Do you carry Nitrogen on your truck as well, or are you guys just carrying CO2? How much does the CO2 cost, and where are you getting it?
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  12. #64
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    Sep 2008
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    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchvac View Post
    Do you carry Nitrogen on your truck as well, or are you guys just carrying CO2? How much does the CO2 cost, and where are you getting it?
    I carry both.

    Both are available through United around here.

    Don't look at costs so much, I'm just a wrench guy

  13. #65
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    Feb 2012
    Location
    Toronto Canada
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    You need to regulators or do you just use the nitro for both?

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