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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3

    Ice machine R12 to Hot Shot

    I was wondering if anyone uses the Hot Shot 414A in any ice machines that used to be R12 I have one at my church a widow lady wishes me to repair for her. It's a little kenmore home type machine that has R12 and was a little low so it wasn't making ice as good as it should. low side was about 10 (has a pig tale for it). did not check high side as it has no pig tale for gauges. I don't have any R12 but do have some hotshot that is used for ac units in our vans. Just wondering I have recovered the R12 and ran a good vacuum/leak check microns were about 240 when I closed it off

    Thanks

    Bob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    In a Mess
    Posts
    992
    I'm not familiar with the ice machine you are referring to, Kenmore is just a name on other manufacturers equipment for the best part.

    Does this machine use hot gas for harvest?

    I know I tried to convert an old 502 manitowic using 408a, I found out Manitowoc recomends 402b(HP-81) so when i used the 408a for some reason there was not enough heat there to drop the sheet of ice. I charged it with HP-81 and it worked great. This was years ago and i think i even tried 402a(hp-80) and that didn't work either can't really remember now though.

    414B is supposed to have similiar discharge temps as R-12 but a little higher on the presssure size so it may work.

    consult the manufacturer to see what they use as a replacement or try and scrounge a bit of R-12 somewhere, I allways have a little stash for these situations

    -Mike
    Sig removed by mod. G-Rated site

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Near Atlanta, GA.
    Posts
    14,433
    Is it a hot gas defrost machine or a small freezer with a domestic ice maker in it?

    On R-12 hot gas machines I have not had good luck with the blends because they don't defrost well. Production is usually much lower and on some machines the ice won't drop well in harvest.

    If it's a small freezer it probably won't reach as low of temperature as with R-12. In this case the best blend would be MP-66.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,076
    If this machine makes ice in a horizontal slab and has wires to cut the ice into cubes it was made by Whirlpool. Here's a link to a great site that tells you all you need to know about them:

    http://www.truetex.com/icemachine.htm

    As for the refrigerant, since the charge is usually less than 1 lb, I suggest you buy a small can or two of R12 and be done with it. You could end up spending a lot of time and effort tweaking the charge with Hot Shot or any other R12 replacement gas and still never get it right. There's a lot of R12 1 pounders available on Ebay at fairly a reasonable price.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
    Posts
    9,641
    if it is the one that cuts the slab into cubes use r409a. have one that we pulled out when we sold customer a small hoshi. fixed leak on bottom of evap and charged with 409, has been running in my brothers house for the last 2 yrs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold.calm
    Posts
    4,846
    From memory that unit only has about 7 oz of R-12. What made you think its low on refrigerant? Suction pressure is not the way to check that charge. Look at your slab, the refrigerant is fed counter clockwise from the outside edges of the evaporator toward the middle.
    Listen to the Ice Man. Find some 12 and recharge it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,188
    I don't think the machine was short on gas. 10 PSI is high for that unit. I have a more modern 134a version and it is about 2 PSI right before harvest. thats equivlent to about 5 PSi for R12.

    with the data you've given, i would check the following things in the following order.
    dirty condesor/fan problem
    leaking water valve
    inefficient compressor


    unfortunately, since you've already removed the refrigerant, you'll need new gas anyways. like others said, i would recommend you buy r12 on eBay, and don't worry about converting it to anything else.


    what was the freeze pattern like on the ice sheet? if the sheet was flat with slight ripples in it, the charge was fine. if it was thicker around the perimeter the charge may have been low.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    28
    icemeister, very interesting and informative read on ice machine repair. Thank you. How in the world do you find these articles?? lol

    Dave.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    st.petersburg,fl
    Posts
    776
    you can get those small cans of r-12 at just about any auto parts store. then you don't have to wait for delivery.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by skpkey9 View Post
    you can get those small cans of r-12 at just about any auto parts store. then you don't have to wait for delivery.
    I think the stuff your talking about is FREEZE 12... its not the same as R-12. I think its a blend.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3

    Thanks

    Appeciate all the info and advise, it is a Simspon Sears, it does make the ice horizontal, and it does slide down to a wire and cuts (heats) into cubes.

    I did service it with the hotshot 414B, it is making ice very well dropping every 8 minutes or so in normal cube size. 15 minutes in thick, Cubes look pretty good. Since then, I have noticed, it is very slow going from harvest back to good low temp. Tomorrow I will run the serial number on the compressor looks original so it could be time. Unit made in 88

    Thanks

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    st.petersburg,fl
    Posts
    776
    if you read the chemical make up on the can you see that its the same R-12.
    I had the same doubts when I went to use it for the first time but compared it and it is R-12.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    st.petersburg,fl
    Posts
    776
    Product by Sercon Refrigerant 12
    Dichiorodifluoromethane cc1 f
    2 2

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