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  1. #14
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    Aug 2011
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    Myrtle Beach SC
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    Medic was just waiting for my response so he could pounce. Probably already had the diagnostic typed up so he could just copy/ paste. Typical Heckler know it all.

    Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

  2. #15
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    columbus, OH
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    I would have to agree with the OP on the statement that he was only drying the top layer of the concrete. Drawing moisture to the surface of solid concrete is a very slow process, the change of air temp. described here would not effect it much. Solid concrete takes around 20 years to full dry or "temper".

  3. #16
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    Jul 2005
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    5,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamscarpentry View Post
    Medic was just waiting for my response so he could pounce. Probably already had the diagnostic typed up so he could just copy/ paste. Typical Heckler know it all.

    Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
    I readily admit that I don't know everything. I'll even admit that I know virtually nothing about some aspects of this trade. This just doesn't happen to be one of those. I stated my intention right from the start. Take it or leave it.

  4. #17
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    Jun 2003
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    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamscarpentry View Post
    I am a student at HGTC and we had to give a presentation for class on the most important thing we learned.

    This is my video presentation.
    VIDEO
    This needs more discussion later!
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  5. #18
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    May 2011
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    Western, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamscarpentry View Post
    Medic was just waiting for my response so he could pounce. Probably already had the diagnostic typed up so he could just copy/ paste. Typical Heckler know it all.

    Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
    Nope, not hvacrmedics style.

    Don't get all defensive and start running folks off that could give you some valuable information later on.

  6. #19
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    Nope, not hvacrmedics style.

    Don't get all defensive and start running folks off that could give you some valuable information later on.
    Appreciate it mason, but I'm doing ok. Teddy Bear is on the scene, so I'm going to stand by eagerly awaiting his input. When Teddy Bear speaks I listen closely. I've learned a lot about moisture and humidity from his posts. I defer to his expertise on this one, and since he's a little softer in his approach maybe the OP will be more open to his input.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018
    This is an important and confusing topic. If someone is going to explain it they should get it right so we can all understand it better. RH has always been a mystery to me. After reading this thread I googled RH and now have a little bit better understanding of RH.
    I think what was happening is that by heating the air, the saturated vapor pressure of the moisture in the air increased while partial pressure of the moisture in the air remained unchanged. Therefor the RH decreased because RH is the ratio of partial pressure of the moisture to the saturated pressure of the moisture. This should be a familiar concept for most of us because we deal with pressure temperature relationships all the time in the context of refrigerants in a closed system. If we increase the temperature of a saturated system then it's no longer at equilibrium and the refrigerant will evaporate until the pressure increases and re-establishes it's equilibrium. So, increasing the temperature of air increases the saturation pressure of the moisture and the RH decreases and liquid moisture evaporates to try and reach it's saturation equilibrium. So the heated air will absorb moisture initially but as it moves across the slab it will gradually cool and start to condense. Thus the "fog".
    I do like OP attempt to calculate the amount of grains of moisture he needed to remove and the amount of BTUs required. I'm not sure if he got it right because I think there might be a lot more variables involved but I do applaud his attempt.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Myrtle Beach SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    So the heated air will absorb moisture initially but as it moves across the slab it will gradually cool and start to condense. Thus the "fog".
    I do like OP attempt to calculate the amount of grains of moisture he needed to remove and the amount of BTUs required. I'm not sure if he got it right because I think there might be a lot more variables involved but I do applaud his attempt.
    There were many variables:
    The slab was saturated.
    The ducts were saturated.
    Outside was 36* and raining.
    The coils were blocks of ice.
    The building is 15 years old with loose construction.(Infiltration)

    Having 4 people on the edge of being pissed off. I came up with a reason and a solution and it worked.(probably to quick) but I did not want to elude to the super flooding the ducts. I just wanted it out and dry.
    Not mentioned in the video is the latent and sensible loads. Which is where I got the 118,800 BTUs. Actually calculating the Gr would have given you 178,500 BTUs. But in the moment of things and with the limited time frame I had, I elected not to correct that fact in the video. There were some number cruncher's in the second row that caught it. But I meant to say 178,500 instead of 118,000(I even said 18,000 the first time and that is the moment i got confused.)

    I have 25 pages of log. 5 pages of bullet points and a total of 1:18 of speech. But the instructor cut it to 15 min for obvious reasons, there are 22 of us yet to come. I was first. So certainly there is more to be said. However, I got an "A" and set the curve for the class. That was my intention anyway right? The "A"

  9. #22
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    Jul 2005
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    5,576
    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    This is an important and confusing topic. If someone is going to explain it they should get it right so we can all understand it better. RH has always been a mystery to me. After reading this thread I googled RH and now have a little bit better understanding of RH.
    I think what was happening is that by heating the air, the saturated vapor pressure of the moisture in the air increased while partial pressure of the moisture in the air remained unchanged. Therefor the RH decreased because RH is the ratio of partial pressure of the moisture to the saturated pressure of the moisture. This should be a familiar concept for most of us because we deal with pressure temperature relationships all the time in the context of refrigerants in a closed system. If we increase the temperature of a saturated system then it's no longer at equilibrium and the refrigerant will evaporate until the pressure increases and re-establishes it's equilibrium. So, increasing the temperature of air increases the saturation pressure of the moisture and the RH decreases and liquid moisture evaporates to try and reach it's saturation equilibrium. So the heated air will absorb moisture initially but as it moves across the slab it will gradually cool and start to condense. Thus the "fog".
    I do like OP attempt to calculate the amount of grains of moisture he needed to remove and the amount of BTUs required. I'm not sure if he got it right because I think there might be a lot more variables involved but I do applaud his attempt.
    Heat and moisture were ADDED to the air from the initial state to the final state. But he got an A on the project, so what the heck. I would've given him a B for effort but would've given the instructors an F, for giving him an A.
    Last edited by hvacrmedic; 03-03-2013 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #23
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    Aug 2011
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    Myrtle Beach SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacrmedic View Post
    Heat and moisture were ADDED to the air from the initial state to the final state. But he got an A on the project, so what the heck. I would've given him a B for effort but would've given the instructors an F, for giving him an A.
    There is not enough information on the video to do the proper calculations. Medic proves my points with his explanations. The difference is that his perspective is that I am wrong. Without all the data he is just producing assumed explanation in the formed of fecal mater. Keeping his foreskin retractors busy between gratification sessions.

    I am not concerned with running him off or with the good information he can provide. There are many good technicians out there. Many with good or better information than the next. Medic can't learn anything from my presentation. He said so himself. It's because he already knows it all. Running him off? People like medic will never go away. So I can't run him off.

    The purpose of his commentary is not to prove he is right or even to prove me wrong. It is to provoke a response from me.(Which he is getting) His hell bent mind set is to take away from the subject and make it about him.(Look at his past posts and interactions)

    I posted in the "Wall of Pride" because I am proud of it. Not to defend it. I stand by my findings. My presentation was on the importance of psychometrics and how I was able to solve a problem. Both my instructors viewed "ALL" the data and were in agreement with me. Other than a few misspeaks. It was right on. Most importantly, it worked. The timing and the result.

    If you send 100 technicians out there you will get 101 different ways to do it. The constructive criticism with a shred of doubt is good. Makes for delightful back and forth conversation. To make the over explanation in great detail about a job you are not even a part of for the sole purpose of shooting holes in it. That's just pompousness and arrogance.

  11. #24
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    Jul 2005
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    5,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamscarpentry View Post
    There is not enough information on the video to do the proper calculations. Medic proves my points with his explanations. The difference is that his perspective is that I am wrong. Without all the data he is just producing assumed explanation in the formed of fecal mater. Keeping his foreskin retractors busy between gratification sessions.

    I am not concerned with running him off or with the good information he can provide. There are many good technicians out there. Many with good or better information than the next. Medic can't learn anything from my presentation. He said so himself. It's because he already knows it all. Running him off? People like medic will never go away. So I can't run him off.

    The purpose of his commentary is not to prove he is right or even to prove me wrong. It is to provoke a response from me.(Which he is getting) His hell bent mind set is to take away from the subject and make it about him.(Look at his past posts and interactions)

    I posted in the "Wall of Pride" because I am proud of it. Not to defend it. I stand by my findings. My presentation was on the importance of psychometrics and how I was able to solve a problem. Both my instructors viewed "ALL" the data and were in agreement with me. Other than a few misspeaks. It was right on. Most importantly, it worked. The timing and the result.

    If you send 100 technicians out there you will get 101 different ways to do it. The constructive criticism with a shred of doubt is good. Makes for delightful back and forth conversation. To make the over explanation in great detail about a job you are not even a part of for the sole purpose of shooting holes in it. That's just pompousness and arrogance.
    That's an unfortunate stance that you've taken. I'd say that's probably what I get for offering unsolicited advice. In retrospect I see that you weren't actually asking for input on your video or its content, being self assured of its correctness. Here's the kicker though, it would have been different if we had met in a supply house somewhere because in the video you seem like a pretty cool guy. I'm generally not difficult to get along with either. It's easy to read things into forum posts that aren't there, and knowing that I try to give everyone the benifit of the doubt, but outright name calling is very difficult to misinterpret. If I made a mistake here, it was in making my first post. Believe me I had no idea that you'd take offense to any critique offered as constructive. I'm assuming at this point that anyone else who attempts to help with your misunderstandings would be likewise met with ad hominem attacks? I hope not. Teddy Bear is the man to seek advice from in this area. I hope you two can get together and that he can explain what I could not. Peace out. I won't be replying to any further posts, so feel free to have the last word. Keep in mind that I wish you, and everyone in this forum, well.

  12. #25
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    Dec 2012
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    columbus, OH
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    This is a great thread, if both disputing partys could break down their argument to simplistic terms i would appreciate it. I will add if either party is considering solid concrete as an endless sink of moisture, that assumption would be inaccurate. The surface of slab is the only portion relevant to this discussion except its heat conducting properties.

  13. #26
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    Dec 2012
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    Its common knowlage squeezing water from a rock is no easy task.

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