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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    12

    New System or Repair Old?

    I think I am putting this in the right section, forgive me if I am not. I have a question, and hope someone here can give me some advice.

    I have a residental unit outside...2009 Goodman(Arcoaire) 3.5ton runs on R-22. The inside unit (air handler) needs to be replaced since the pan is leaking, and the system has leaks, as it is the original one from the house being built(date stamped 1988)

    Here is my decision...do I replace the whole unit, inside and out with a system which runs on the new coolant, or do I just replace the air handler. I already have qutoes to do both, and the different is about $, but I don't want to be cheap now and it cost me down the road. I hate to replace the outside system, as it is not even 4 years old and working great. But the concerns with R-22 being phased out and getting more expensive worry me.

    So, what is the RIGHT, while also being cost efficient, way to handle this? Is the R-22 thing being overblown and I should stay with my old system with a new air handler, or do I replace everything now.

    Also, I was told if I do replace the WHOLE system, I could capture the R-22 in the old outside unit and then be able to possibly resell that unit to someone who can't afford a new one? Is that legal? Possible?

    Thanks so much in advance!
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 02-26-2013 at 07:39 PM. Reason: pricing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,599
    Goodman and Arco are 2 difference companies.

    Pretty hard to justify replacing a 4 year old outdoor unit. You could just get a new indoor unit for lots less than replacing all. You know your budget.

    As for trying to resell the old R22, forget it! Too much work and who knows how clean it is.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    12
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Goodman and Arco are 2 difference companies.

    Pretty hard to justify replacing a 4 year old outdoor unit. You could just get a new indoor unit for lots less than replacing all. You know your budget.

    As for trying to resell the old R22, forget it! Too much work and who knows how clean it is.
    Sorry, it's an Arco, I'm considering Goodman if I replace the whole system.

    I originally just wanted to do the inside fix, but had 1 AC guy tell me he wouldn't even do it, and with the government in his words "stopping people from using R-22 in the near future" it would be terribly stupid to not replace the whole system.

    I guess I'm trying to guage what the impact of sticking with an R-22 system really is. I know it is going up in price, but unless my system is leaking coolant, then should I really be worried about that?

    Like I said, I save upwards of $ just doing the inside unit, so at first I was leaning to biting the bullet and doing the whole system, but if there is nothing categorically wrong with leaving the outside unit, then it's something I would consider.
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 02-26-2013 at 07:39 PM. Reason: pricing

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    4,855
    To be honest, you should be saving more than what you are stating (pricing is not allowed here by the way, even generalized pricing). You are correct in the assumption that as long as the system is tight, refrigerant prices really are not a factor, none out, none in. Being a 2009 unit, it will be at least 13 SEER and easy to match to a new coil/air handler unit. While R-22 is rising in price due to pressure from the powers that be, there are already several drop in replacement on the market and more in the works. These refrigerant options are cheaper than R-22. As far as capturing the charge in your present unit and selling it to someone in need, yes it's possible but technically illegal depending on how you interpret the laws. Bottom line if it were me, I would probably replace just the idoor section.
    A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!

    DEM


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    12
    Quote Originally Posted by heaterman View Post
    To be honest, you should be saving more than what you are stating (pricing is not allowed here by the way, even generalized pricing). You are correct in the assumption that as long as the system is tight, refrigerant prices really are not a factor, none out, none in. Being a 2009 unit, it will be at least 13 SEER and easy to match to a new coil/air handler unit. While R-22 is rising in price due to pressure from the powers that be, there are already several drop in replacement on the market and more in the works. These refrigerant options are cheaper than R-22. As far as capturing the charge in your present unit and selling it to someone in need, yes it's possible but technically illegal depending on how you interpret the laws. Bottom line if it were me, I would probably replace just the idoor section.
    I won't go into details of pricing, but it is a friend who is an AC guy and he is allowing me to purchase the parts, and charging a flat rate for labor, one for full replace, one for inside(so no markup on parts). That is probably the difference you are seeing.

    What do you mean in the bold part? Altenative coolants that can be added to a system that is running on R-22 now?

    Your advice was REALLY helpful, I appreciate it

    Also if anyone else has an opinion, I would like to hear it, the more the better.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    2,753
    Your best move at this point in time is to change all of the equipment because as you say 410a will be cheap for yrs to come.
    If you are buying the equipment on line ( which I am not assuming, just fyi) warranties are voided.
    R410a units are more effecient than r-22 units and you can have a 10 yr. parts warranty if bought thru a contractor and registered properly. I believe that total replacement is in your best interest.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by toocoolforschool View Post
    Your best move at this point in time is to change all of the equipment because as you say 410a will be cheap for yrs to come.
    If you are buying the equipment on line ( which I am not assuming, just fyi) warranties are voided.
    R410a units are more effecient than r-22 units and you can have a 10 yr. parts warranty if bought thru a contractor and registered properly. I believe that total replacement is in your best interest.
    I was looking at purchasing online and having it shipped to me. I really don't want to pay some contractors insane markup for the same product. Is there a way to purchase it somewhere with a warranty and not get raked over the coals?

    Also, yes the 410 would be cheaper, but is that of a huge concern to me if my AC is in working order?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    2,989
    Quote Originally Posted by jakek34 View Post
    I was looking at purchasing online and having it shipped to me. I really don't want to pay some contractors insane markup for the same product. Is there a way to purchase it somewhere with a warranty and not get raked over the coals?

    Also, yes the 410 would be cheaper, but is that of a huge concern to me if my AC is in working order?



    How's not having a warranty on the indoor part working for you now???

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    2,753
    Quote Originally Posted by jakek34 View Post
    I won't go into details of pricing, but it is a friend who is an AC guy and he is allowing me to purchase the parts, and charging a flat rate for labor, one for full replace, one for inside(so no markup on parts). That is probably the difference you are seeing.

    What do you mean in the bold part? Altenative coolants that can be added to a system that is running on R-22 now?

    Your advice was REALLY helpful, I appreciate it

    Also if anyone else has an opinion, I would like to hear it, the more the better.
    So you really think you are purchasing equipment online and not paying a markup?
    Chances are you are making a mistake if you follow your current direction.
    You have lost most if not all credibility from here on out.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    I don't think I merit being ridiculed based on the fact I'm not rich and can't afford certain things. Also I don't think they make warranties for 25 year old products, but I could be wrong.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    12
    Quote Originally Posted by toocoolforschool View Post
    So you really think you are purchasing equipment online and not paying a markup?
    Chances are you are making a mistake if you follow your current direction.
    You have lost most if not all credibility from here on out.
    I guess what I need to find out then is this...are there companies out there, and can you suggest some, where I can buy the proper equiptment the proper way and make sure I am covered by warranties while also not having to pay an arm and a leg? I just don't want to become one of those horror stories I hear where people WAY overpay for product because they do not know any better.

    I honestly can't understand why people have to treat me like this. I'm trying to gain knowlege, trying to do things the right way, and instead am told I am not credible and basically stupid? I came here for help from people I thought were genuine and trustworthy, not to start a fight.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    12
    Also let me add, when purchasing it online, it is from a company, not an individual or ebat etc. I assumed me buying it online YES I would be paying a markup. I just have someone who can do the work cheaper for me, but still want the RIGHT product.

    Maybe there is a disconnect there in termonology?

    Here is one of the site's I have been looking at, is this credible or am I going about this wrong?

    Removed purchase site

    This companies warranty says...We back all manufacturer warranties on equipment, the equipment must be installed by a heating and air contractor or approved by HVAC technician. When a part needs to be replaced we will ship you the replacement part and then you will return defective part back to us for warranty reimbursement. We back all manufacturer warranties on parts only, the customer is responsible for the shipping and labor charges to replace defective parts.
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 02-26-2013 at 07:42 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    nebraska
    Posts
    1,629
    If you were my customer we would suggest just replacing the air handler.

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