I did read the rules. I didn't provide system pricing but rather a price difference which reveals no competitive information. Thank you.
Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm
Its still a price and goes against the intent. Posting a percentage increase is ok. Do that might be a 10% increase for example.
Originally Posted by kmax1000
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Gotcha. Sorry. My interpretation was that it would be for actual system and component pricing so I thought price differences would be safe. My bad.
Originally Posted by motoguy128
Changing to Trane
So an opportunity has presented itself where it makes more sense for us to go with a Trane system. The dealer likes the XL16i over the XR16, but from what I've read on here and from reviewing the specs on the two, the XR16 looks like the better system if I can live without the fancy top and extra two year warranty (what else is different?).
The two systems being considered are as follows:
Trane 3-ton XL16i heat pump, Hyperion XL TAM7 air handler, and XL900 thermostat. The other option is the Trane 3-ton XR16 heat pump, Hyperion XL TAM7 air handler, and Honeywell VisionPRO IAQ t-stat. Which would you recommend and why if money were the same? Are there any other Trane combinations I should consider (can't afford XL20i)?
Originally Posted by kmax1000
The XR16 is the same unit as the XL16 just as you stated without the top. They both are good units with decent Numbers. The only draw back to either the XR16 or XL16 is that they both have 2 stage/2 step compressors.
Which means it those systems have 1 compressor that work on 70% capacity in 1st stage and when 2nd stage is used brings in the other 30% of the compressor. The XR16 and Xl16 both are none for not having the best humdity removal. As long as sized properly and installed properly will work fine but just dehumdity as well.
The probelm with 2 stage/2 step compressor is they don't come in 1/2 sizes. So if your home only requires (2.5) ton of cooling would need to go to (3) ton 2stage/2 step outdoor unit. Which has pros and cons. I would still take a look at XL20 system although you say it outside your budget. The XL20 is a true 2 stage unit with 2 compressors. So if home needs(2.5) tons then going to Xl20 will allow you to have 1 compressor that is (1.5) ton and the other is (3) ton. This is Trane top of the line system but does cost more.
Comfort is the key! The payback on 15-20 seer is not great meaning that more then licky you will not recover the cost in energy savings over the life of the system or warranty period. One other thing that any XL system has is 12 year warranty on compressor compaired to XR system 10 year warranty.
I use to be dead set against installing XL16 system due to cost vs XL20 which cost a little more but makes up the differance in comfort. Comfort does not have a ROI but does make a differance. Since the XR16 has come out and is more cost effective system with the same compressor, I had sold and installed several with little to no problems.
I would just discuss all this with your installing contractor and see what fits your budget the best. An above all make sure sized and installed properly and you shouldn't have any problems. Just my 2 cent on the matter.
Thanks for the input! Admittedly that's the first time that I've heard of the two-stage compressor being referred to as a drawback rather than a benefit. I guess in comparison to the XL20i it would be. I have three load calcs and bids and they range from 2.2 tons to 2.6 tons. Two of the three calcs are between 2.5 and 2.6 tons. Is there a reason not to go with the XR16 over the single stage 2.5 ton XR15? Thanks again.
Originally Posted by duckman06
First off its not always a drawback but in so many cases a customers duct system will only handle so much cfm for supply and return. Has your contractor reviewed over your ductwork? If so how much air can supply and return?
Originally Posted by kmax1000
As stated before the XL16 was never been a system I would recommend due to price and the 1 compressor with 2stage/2step operation due my climate in northeast LA. Again due to humidify removal not being the best. Now that XR16 has been released and is a more cost effective system with the same compressor as the XL16. It makes since to give it as one of three options and review over these with a customer.
If load accurate and it coming in a little over (2.5) then 2 stage is not a bad thing. 2 stage equipment while in most cases is more energy eff. The payback takes longer due to cost. 2 stage equipment is more about comfort then price. It all boils down to what you are truly looking for from your new system.
Example: 2 stage equipment has the ablity to use to run in 1st stage when the Cooling demand is not high say spring so in that case system will operate more efficient and keep your home comfortable. If sized and installed propely!
Single stage equipment has only one size. Which in your case per manual j numbers would be (2.5) ton which means no matter what that is what the compressor will deliver when system is operating. When sized and installed probley!
Where do you live? I see that it will be a heat pump so with 2 stage you also get 2 stages of heating too and will deliver more heating btu's along with cooling btu's. a plus if again sized and installed properly. I am not saying that a 2stage/2step Pieace of equipment is not right for your home but needs to be reviewed in with options on system selection. The installing company should be able to explain this in person why he or she is suggesting it over single stage!
As long as either system has a variable speed air handler I see either option as a improvement over your current system. I would have a set down with the installing contractor to review over loads and see who is right. As you are getting numbers all over the place from 2.2-2.6 while not a big Diffrance still needs to be reviewed back over to ensure proper sizing.
I also look into ways to seal the home up better, add insulation etc... To see how much this improvements will this will reduce the load required for heating and cooling your home. In most cases adding add insualtion only to say the attic can adjust the needed btu's to heat and cool down. It's your decision!
Also for comparaions do look into a XL20 while more might be worth at least a look at. Also ask what t-stat they recommend to help control humdity in the home and why. Also again get them to check supply and return for proper cfm delivery and return ( don't want the system to sound like a jet plans when goes to 2nd stage. Opions are like elbows everyone has them and they differ from person to person.
Sounds like you've taken the proper steps to make sure your system is replaced correctly.
Everyone above has given great advice.
The only thing that I would like to add; Speak to your installing contractor and inquire about an extended warranty. 10 year parts and labor. All manufacturers offer this as an option. It will be great investment. Plus, absolutely no worries for 10 years.
Will do thanks. And just some background - I'm not a Trane loyalist or anything, but have family that works for Trane so I can get the Trane two-stage cheaper than most other brand single stage units. I wanted the two-stage for the reportedly better comfort and maybe very slightly lower utility bills.
Originally Posted by Brent Ridley
My problem is that I am scared of the XL16i after reading so much bad stuff about it's poor heating output, poor dehumidification performance, negligible 2 stage performance, etc. We are putting down wide plank solid flooring and not having good humidity control scares me for swelling and shrinking of the floor. That combined with the report that the XL16i doesn't work with the VisionPro IAQ thermostat so we'd be stuck with the seemingly less robust Trane Comfort-R feature with a standard Trane t-stat.
The good thing is that we live in a fairly moderate climate in Southwestern Virginia. However, I don't want to spend the money or risk the complexity of the XL20i. I have considered forgoing the two-stage XL16i and just go with the single-stage XL15i heat pump, variable speed air handler, and a VisionPro IAQ. Am I worrying for nothing? Sorry, just need to pull the trigger today and want to make sure I don't screw up.
Thanks for the thoughtful responses so far and thanks in advance for future ones!
You can equate the price difference in percentages So, what is the difference between the two types of systems percentage wise?
A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!
LOL. I learned that the hard way. The price jump from XL15i to XL16i is +5%ish and the jump from XL16i to XL20i is an additional +10%ish (over the XL16i) of the total installed price (includes from scratch new duct work, etc.).
Originally Posted by heaterman
Thanks to all!
Thanks to all for the input. We went with a Trane 3-ton XL16i heat pump, 3-ton TAM7 air handler, and 803 thermostat.
If you going full communicating...I highly suggest the XL950 stat over the 803.
The XL950 will allow you to be in control of every aspect of your system...from airflow to temp lockouts. Also, it is wifi enabled and you can remotely access the thermostat with a smart phone, tablet, or laptop.