I carry a turbo torch for "everyday use" and only drag out oxy/ace from our shop for specific projects (maybe once a year).
Oxy for me, I have a B-tank for heating work.
ive only run Btank but want to try oxy. seems like it would be better.
at home I break out the oxy to heat a stuck bolt, need to see if work will pay for it
... Devil is in the details, these'll get you there.
Originally Posted by cobra2411
I prefer oxy/ace its exact, for tight places, and leaks. I find the turbo torch to hard to use outdoors and indoors in tight places. I don't know what tips it was because it wasn't mine.
same here, extra tanks are a must. And I have cut off a shaft or two with em.
Originally Posted by 2sac
If ya ever have the pleasure of replacing a Middlby Marshall pizza oven blower motor. You will definitly be happy with oxy/acet with the cutting tip.
I believe air-acetylene with a Turbo torch tip should get hot enough for any job. Victor Turbo Torch and Harris Inferno make different air-fuel torch tips for different size tubing. You can't use the same tip on 5/8" inch tubing and 2" tubing.
Low temperature silver solder like Stay-Brite 8 has many advantages for all residential connections except those made directly to the compressor. Above 250F Stay-Brite 8 quickly weakens. Residential system fittings should never get that hot except at the compressor fittings.
You don't have to seep anhydrous nitrogen when using a low temperature solder. According to Harris Products, Stay Brite 8 produces a stronger joint. They say that high temperature brazing anneals and weakens cooper tubing. That annealed cooper will burst at a lower temperature.
According to Guide to Brazing and Soldering, a brazed joint with silver solder will burst at 1,800 psi, while a Stay-Brite joint will burst at 3,800 PSI. See page 19 where they show a picture of a Stay-Brite joint that held-up in the same copper tube that caused a brazed joint to burst.
If you use Stay-Brite 8 do not flux the innermost half of the joint to prevent flux from entering the system.
Moreover, low temp. soldering is safer for a/c components like TXVs, reversing valves, and filter dryers. There is less chance damaging these components.
"Both Stay-Brite and Stay-Brite 8 produce an overall component with greater strength than a brazed component whose base metals are weakened by annealment from high brazing heat. Stay-Brite solders bond with all of the ferrous and nonferrous alloys. Joints soldered with Stay-Brite solders exhibit considerably higher than necessary elongation for sound, dissimilar metal joints and vibration applications."
Stay-Brite 8 can melt in a fire and release refrigerant. That is why Stay-Brite 8 should not be used in commercial applications. Also, many companies will void their warranty if their systems are not brazed in place. They fear overuse of flux will contaminate their systems.
However, there are techs here who feel differently.
"If Sta-Brite was a superior method you would see it used in the equipment you install. If the IOM paperwork said to apply flux and Sta-Brite to the joint I would do so without question. The bottom line is that it requires acid to prepare the copper . It also produces debris into the piping as it is applied ( beads ). And the "strength," the argument is that the lower melting point does not anneal the copper and that it is 'STRONGER,' BS. It is a brittle connection that will fail as vibration over time takes it's toll on a material barely hanging on from new. Yeah, sometimes it worked with R-22 but with 410-A it is even further from being an acceptable method of joining pipes and components."
This advice as to which is better Victor Turbo Torch or Harris Inferno?
"You should also check out the INFERNO line from Harris. I have a turbotorch and after demoing the Inferno set, I can tell you they have much better torch heads. They don't get hot, the flame is concentrated straight ahead, right were you want it. I want to sell my turbo for the Inferno, now."
Please don't link to other forums
Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 01-23-2014 at 06:22 AM.
Stay-Brite, or not...
Hey Frank, This topic might be worthy of its own thread...
Originally Posted by Frank Truth
I have a friend who uses air acetylene for doing resi but in commercial I wouldn't think of wasting time with that. Oxy acetylene for me. I use a dual tip for anything over 7/8. Makes quick work of sweating out compressors.
Last edited by Scott Kline; 01-23-2014 at 08:46 PM.
I changed an evaporator in an ice machine today. With my oxy/acetylene and #2 tip I did not burn any wires or insulation. No burn marks whatsoever, you can't even tell I was in there. With a turbotorch I would have burnt everything for sure.
What pressures are you guys setting your regulators to?
I myself have only use an oxy-acetylene rig, but it is heavy to carry up a ladder to a roof. And I go through tanks very quickly. There are Victor Turbo Tourch tips and Harris Inferno torch tips that easily put out enough heat to braze 2" tubing with air-acetylene. All that is needed is an MC acetylene tank. I believe the correct air-acetylene tip will put out as much heat as an oxy-acetylene rig, and work just as fast.
Here is an urban myth. I suspect this myth originated from an a/c textbook called Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Technology. This book claims oxygen should be set at 14psi and acetylene should be set at 7psi. This is not correct. This would only be the case for cutting metal, not brazing or welding metal.
Both oxygen and acetylene should be set for the exact same pressure on regulators. If the oxygen is set at 5 psi, the acetylene should also be set at 5 psi. The exact psi setting is determined by the manufacturer of the tip. Every tip should come with a spec. sheet that tells you what pressures should be set on the regulators. If you don't have this sheet, go to the respective manufacturer's web site with the tip size you have. You should be able to find the information there or by calling the manufacturer. I think I was wasting a lot of oxygen by having the oxygen on my regulators set so high.
This information comes from engineers at Harris, Victor, and Uniweld--the three largest manufacturers of welding equipment.
The actual flame should be a slightly carburizing flame, never an oxidizing flame.