Boiler Question

[MHall]

As a High School student hoping to get into the field,I have been doing some additional research on boilers.

One question I have is this; "Under what conditions must a boiler be under a 24 hour watch?"

Both schools I have attended use boilers for hot water heat, and only have staff present during the day.

Thank you for your time and assitance in answering my question.

[timmy2734]

It depends...

Around here, if a low pressure boiler is fully automated, it does not require an operator. Hi pressure boilers require an operator during operation.
If a facility is a 24/7 operation they'll have somebody there. Something like a school may not as they would shut down daily and nut run around the clock.

[MHall]

It depends...

Around here, if a low pressure boiler is fully automated, it does not require an operator. Hi pressure boilers require an operator during operation.
If a facility is a 24/7 operation they'll have somebody there. Something like a school may not as they would shut down daily and nut run around the clock.

Thanks for the reply.

So all high pressure boilers require an operator, even if they are fully automated?? If so, why??

[GT Jets]

Thanks for the reply.

So all high pressure boilers require an operator, even if they are fully automated?? If so, why??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c-wOGOr0io

[GT Jets]

For the most "all encompassing" answer, refer to the rules set by each state.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Stea...ient=firefox-a

Asking questions is a great way to expand your knowledge.. If I may be so bold, aim higher than you think you can achieve.

A person that sets a low goal will achieve their goals easier but will find them less rewarding....

GT

[MHall]

Is an operator required for both Steam boilers and hot water boilers??? I always thought that operators were required with steam only...?

Thanks.

[GT Jets]

Is an operator required for both Steam boilers and hot water boilers??? I always thought that operators were required with steam only...?

Thanks.

Most cases above 15 PSI Steam.

The reason for the non specifics is because different locations have different rules.

As an example, a hydronic heating water boiler here in California requires two low water cut outs.

GT

[timmy2734]

the word "operator" gets tossed around too easily. There's some guys that are nothing more than switch flippers unfortunately... or sometimes maybe management has them doing other things that they feel are more important.

then stuff like this happens
http://www.ipemaritimes.com/bxpl.pdf

NYC Department of Buildings requires a licensed engineer for hi pressure boilers.

NYC Fire Department handles the low pressure boiler operation. There's also a DEP Air pollution certificate for residual fuel oil.

[MHall]

See above.

[GT Jets]

Blanket statement coming up....

ANYONE who installs electric heat in a new building when alternatives are available is cheating it's customer.

Electric heat is the 30+year old technology, not boilers.

Every building I service that does not have air to air heat pumps has a hot water system.

Water source heat pumps still use boilers as their primary source of heat.

GT

[GT Jets]

I personally feel that the largest advancements in mechanical systems in buildings is what we are allowing to leave the tail pipe (so to speak).

With the new refrigerants (personally whole heartedly disagree with R410A "Puron") and low NOX technologies we are starting to see some of the cleanest buildings in the world.

I had the opportunity to service a zero carbon emission building in Silicon Valley. Cutting edge stuff.

Keep asking questions and you may just stumble on a better way do do things...

Just keep on mind that most people that can think outside the box learned to think inside it first...

[MHall]

I personally feel that the largest advancements in mechanical systems in buildings is what we are allowing to leave the tail pipe (so to speak).

With the new refrigerants (personally whole heartedly disagree with R410A "Puron") and low NOX technologies we are starting to see some of the cleanest buildings in the world.

I had the opportunity to service a zero carbon emission building in Silicon Valley. Cutting edge stuff.

Keep asking questions and you may just stumble on a better way do do things...

Just keep on mind that most people that can think outside the box learned to think inside it first...

Speaking of emmisons that may be one reason for the movement away from boilers....? Perhaps the logic of the developers of a new building, is that electric heat is more environmentaly friendly because there is no flue?

[GT Jets]

Speaking of emmisons that may be one reason for the movement away from boilers....? Perhaps the logic of the developers of a new building, is that electric heat is more environmentaly friendly because there is no flue?

I personally guarantee the boilers of today can generate more usable heat with less detriment to the environment than electrics... Somebody has to generate the power using fossil somewhere, unless you have a ton of hydro or wind available, we do not.

GT

[timmy2734]

Speaking of emmisons that may be one reason for the movement away from boilers....? Perhaps the logic of the developers of a new building, is that electric heat is more environmentaly friendly because there is no flue?

That electric is coming from somewhere. It'd be my assumption that it's coming from some type of fossil fuel burning plant. Unless you have hydro or solar or whatever else.

[MHall]

Thanks for the replies.

Another question I have; " Are high pressure boilers used only in older properties"?? It seems that this method of heating hasn't been used in new construction for 30+ years. Are there any newer buildings that utilize this type of heating??

Currently, all new construction appears to be electric heat strips. I would appreciate your insight. Thanks

[Joseph'bidness]

[QUOTE=MHall;15283531]Thanks for the replies.

Another question I have; " Are high pressure boilers used only in older properties"?? It seems that this method of heating hasn't been used in new construction for 30+ years. Are there any newer buildings that utilize this type of heating??

Johnson Controls did an Amazing renovation in Childrens Hospital serving Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The safety valve testing once a year is important; however, when new controls are added onto vessels rated for capacity there is a tendency to run into a breaching that sheds tears to the fire tubes causing the unit to crack... What your hinting at is correct, system replacement is better than overcontrolled. For example, there was a building I recall working on that used a glycol loop from five tandom boilers all 100k btu. Another building used some 300k pork chops with cast iron exchangers, and yet another building had three cleaver brookes fire tubes, a fuel cell 250kw, and three 20 ton trane air handlers, and trox units for perimeter zoning. The important thing to remember is control control control.

[Joseph'bidness]

I've even seen some guys in commercial applications put ball valves on top of expansion tanks.. Older properties are expensive to convert to the newer technologies which save the facility dollars. The tandom boilers were small household low pressure boilers; yet, served the building in a manner that was far more green than the supplemented cleaver brookes with a 250kw fuel cell that prob. never sold any power back to the grid.

[timmy2734]

nope.

You'll see it still in New construction.

Hospitals, Colleges, large apartment complexes, utility companies, factories.

It's still around

[MHall]

nope.

You'll see it still in New construction.

Hospitals, Colleges, large apartment complexes, utility companies, factories.

It's still around

How new?? I've never visited any building heated by steam or hot water, that wasn't 50+ years old.

However, I have read case studies of buildings built in the 1970s that used boiler heat. It is my quess that boiler heat fell out of use in the early 1980s, from then on it was all electric heating elements in new construction. Am I right?

This is simply my theory, from the limited obsevation I have as a high school student. Any additional input is appreciated!

[GT Jets]

How new?? I've never visited any building heated by steam or hot water, that wasn't 50+ years old.

However, I have read case studies of buildings built in the 1970s that used boiler heat. It is my quess that boiler heat fell out of use in the early 1980s, from then on it was all electric heating elements in new construction. Am I right?

This is simply my theory, from the limited obsevation I have as a high school student. Any additional input is appreciated!

Electric heat is (and should be) one of the least used heating types you will find.

Steam, as dangerous as at can be if not respected is very efficient and effective. Well at least when compared to strip heat....

GT