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Thread: Boiler Question

  1. #183
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    Nov 2010
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    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    Just like my old boss, "your point was well taken" but zero action or reaction comes of it.
    I would still appreciate a response to my question. If you read it, you will see that it has NOTHING to do with the previous questions I asked.

    [U[/U]Please give my questions some understanding, as they are coming from an eighteen year old HS student who is only just begining to learn about this field.

    Best.

    Thank you.

  2. #184
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    May 2012
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    If I were breaking into a field trying to learn I would never second guess anyone feeding me great info, even if they are wrong. I live in upper Michigan and I guarantee you will find zero buildings old or new relying on electric heat. Water is king around here.

  3. #185
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    If I were breaking into a field trying to learn I would never second guess anyone feeding me great info, even if they are wrong. I live in upper Michigan and I guarantee you will find zero buildings old or new relying on electric heat. Water is king around here.
    My last question concerned the difference between boilers and hot water heaters. I will repost the question here in hope of receiving an answer from someone willing to help me understand:

    In going through the TDLR Boiler Records, I have seen many licensed Boilers that are for the purpose of providing domestic hot water. Many laundry centers, hotels, apartments have a "boiler" listed for the purposes of: "hot water supply".

    My question today is; Why are these units called "boilers" when they are doing the same thing a water heater does??? A commercial water heater does not have to be licensed, regulated etc as a boiler does. Why not have a large water heater??

    Any information is appreciated. Thank you.

    PS: The “boilers” listed for providing hot water supply could not too large, as I have seen these units listed as being located in smaller places such as apartments and even restaurants.

  4. #186
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    I'm not sure but I'm guessing your seeing boilers with an indirect water heater or storage tank.

  5. #187
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    Jun 2009
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    Northwest IN/Chicago
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHall View Post
    I would still appreciate a response to my question. If you read it, you will see that it has NOTHING to do with the previous questions I asked.

    [U[/U]Please give my questions some understanding, as they are coming from an eighteen year old HS student who is only just begining to learn about this field.

    Best.

    Thank you.
    I think one of the best ways to learn is to observe. The other best way is to learn hands on. Two things your not doing on here. You do tend to come across as a know it all and argumentative. Perhaps it's time to take a step back and observe from outside the room. You might see something (or lots of things) that you don't see now.

  6. #188
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    I'm not sure but I'm guessing your seeing boilers with an indirect water heater or storage tank.
    One license was listed for an "Olive Garden" resturant as a boiler licensed for hot water supply. Domestic Hot water heaters are not licensed and regulated, so this is definetly a boiler. My question is wouldn't the "boiler" listed for the purpose of hot water supply be a commercial water heater not a boiler??? Why call it a boiler??

    Are water heaters used in commercial applications considered, "boilers"??

    Thank you for any help that you can provide.

  7. #189
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    Mar 2010
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    Morgan Hill Ca.
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    There is no set rule for when a water heater is called a boiler, typically a boiler needs flow to heat the water properly, whereas a water heater does not.

    That being said, boilers get pretty small, then with the addition of "Tankless water heaters" the definition gets more obscure.

    I would basically put it in your head that any boiler (or water heater) that is being used to heat anything other than domestic water is a boiler, adversely, the heater used to heat domestic water is a "water heater".

    The term "Boiler" is misleading anyway, if it "boils" your screwed... That would be a steam boiler....

    That is the best answer I can muster up, if that is not acceptable and you want to challenge it, then so be it. Your running out of people to try and educate you any further.

    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

  8. #190
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT Jets View Post
    There is no set rule for when a water heater is called a boiler, typically a boiler needs flow to heat the water properly, whereas a water heater does not.

    That being said, boilers get pretty small, then with the addition of "Tankless water heaters" the definition gets more obscure.

    I would basically put it in your head that any boiler (or water heater) that is being used to heat anything other than domestic water is a boiler, adversely, the heater used to heat domestic water is a "water heater".

    The term "Boiler" is misleading anyway, if it "boils" your screwed... That would be a steam boiler....

    That is the best answer I can muster up, if that is not acceptable and you want to challenge it, then so be it. Your running out of people to try and educate you any further.

    GT
    Thank you for your response. I appreciate your information.

  9. #191
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    Mar 2009
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    Several Miles from Sane
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHall View Post
    User,Cagey57;

    If you read my question, you will see that it is valid and worthy of response. Any replies are greatly appreciated
    I have to renig !

    The reference to "hot water heat" typically refers to "Hydronic" hot water heat. Your inference to "water heater' has to be taken in the context of "Domestic Hot Water" not Hydronic "hot water".

    In this part of the country Hydronic "Boilers" (hot water, not steam) are quite frequently installed because the cost of natural gas is significantly lower than the cost of Electricity. I have worked on no less than a dozen New Construction Building that had a minimum of 2 Brand New "Hydronic" Boilers installed in them in the last 2 years.

    No offense intended here but instead of ignoring the collective wisdom of some of the best professionsal in the industry that contribute on this site why don't you invest your time researching something of value. Say.. Hydronic heat theory, physics as it relates to HVAC, Thermodynamics as it relates to HAVC and possibly Electrical theory. If you are so darn intrested in why you believe that "Boilers" don't get installed in "New" buildings go talk to a Mechanical Engineer and ask them ! I suggest you find one that is not from Texas who has experience in climates that see temperature extreams below 20 degrees for more than a day or 2 (no offense to Texas in any way) .

    You keep asking the same questions in a different way and evidently don't comprehend the answers !

    Hey, if it looks like a duck (troll) and it qwacks like a duck (troll) the IT IS A DUCK (troll). Maybe not purposely but still.....
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

  10. #192
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    Apr 2011
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    Coastal Maine
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    The difference in a "water heater" and a hydronic "boiler" is in the ASME stamp. Hydronic boilers have a H Stamp. Water heaters have an HLW stamp. Large Power Steam boilers have an S stamp. See attached. Boiler licenses vary by jurisdiction. In the state of Maine, Steam boilers under 15 PSI are required to have an operator with a Low Pressure Operators License in Commercial and Institutional Buildings. Steam Boilers over 15 PSI in those settings are required to have an appropriately license Engineer and an Operator licensed as a High Pressure Boiler Operator. There is also a threshold for 24/7 monitoring. Meaning that a Licensed Operator is required onsite 24/7. I do not know off the top of my head what that threshold is.

    See link below for rating differences between vessel styles. Also, a water heater, makes Domestic Potable hot water. Hydronic and Steam boilers make heat for usage in heating (sometimes both space heating and domestic potable water heating).

    http://www.onetb.com/asme_code.htm

  11. #193
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by meplumber View Post
    The difference in a "water heater" and a hydronic "boiler" is in the ASME stamp. Hydronic boilers have a H Stamp. Water heaters have an HLW stamp. Large Power Steam boilers have an S stamp. See attached. Boiler licenses vary by jurisdiction. In the state of Maine, Steam boilers under 15 PSI are required to have an operator with a Low Pressure Operators License in Commercial and Institutional Buildings. Steam Boilers over 15 PSI in those settings are required to have an appropriately license Engineer and an Operator licensed as a High Pressure Boiler Operator. There is also a threshold for 24/7 monitoring. Meaning that a Licensed Operator is required onsite 24/7. I do not know off the top of my head what that threshold is.

    See link below for rating differences between vessel styles. Also, a water heater, makes Domestic Potable hot water. Hydronic and Steam boilers make heat for usage in heating (sometimes both space heating and domestic potable water heating).

    http://www.onetb.com/asme_code.htm
    Thank you very much, for the information!

  12. #194
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    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto
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    Wow, I am surprised to see this thread go on so long, without a lot of movement from the first few pages. Anyway, while the regs can be complicated the idea is simple......A boiler runs at a specific max pressure, has safeties to ensure that it does and is designed for "closed loop circulation", or very little new water introduced to it. This makes the use of cast iron or steel rads possible.

    A water heater CAN be the same as a boiler in construction, such as the Teledyne Laars commercial water heaters and boilers, or RBI or any number of mid efficiency copper fin boilers that still are working in many apartment buildings. The difference with these water heaters is that they are meant to have oxygenated water flow through them on the way to the tap. They are typically rated for domestic water pressures, do not have some of the safeties that boilers have (low water cut off, for example) which means that typically just a high limit switch and a flow switch is necessary.

    The heat exchanger may be exactly the same one in the water heating boiler as in the space heating boiler but the jacket, gas valve, venting, operating conditions may be different. It depends on what you want to accomplish.

  13. #195
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    Mar 2013
    Location
    Central IL
    Posts
    103
    well said Gib..... Maintenance failed lives lost....

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