Boiler Question

[GT Jets]

How new?? I've never visited any building heated by steam or hot water, that wasn't 50+ years old.

However, I have read case studies of buildings built in the 1970s that used boiler heat. It is my quess that boiler heat fell out of use in the early 1980s, from then on it was all electric heating elements in new construction. Am I right?

This is simply my theory, from the limited obsevation I have as a high school student. Any additional input is appreciated!

Electric heat is (and should be) one of the least used heating types you will find.

Steam, as dangerous as at can be if not respected is very efficient and effective. Well at least when compared to strip heat....

GT

[timmy2734]

When you say new construction, are you referring to a specific type of building?

A lot of the skyscrapers in Manhattan don't have boilers. They run off of con-ed steam. Hospitals and colleges here generally have their own plants. There's also a handful of rather large apartment/co-op complexes here that still run hi pressure steam.

[MHall]

Electric heat is (and should be) one of the least used heating types you will find.

Steam, as dangerous as at can be if not respected is very efficient and effective. Well at least when compared to strip heat....

GT

This past summer I was an apprentice building engineer at an office tower in my area. The building is 15+ storys and is completely heated by electric heat( Heatrix Boxes).

[timmy2734]

If I remember correctly, you're in Texas? How much heat do they actually need, what's the normal winter temp down there?

It's not rare for buildings in cold climates to be running chillers or economizing/free cooling during winter months. Some buildings have enough of a heat load to warrant that with all of the electronic equipment and people.

[GT Jets]

This past summer I was an apprentice building engineer at an office tower in my area. The building is 15+ storys and is completely heated by electric heat( Heatrix Boxes).

Didn't say it wasn't done, said it was the least common... I have seen many hotels with electric heat strips in the fan coils then they use chilled water for cooling, but the average temperature in the area is about 65*F and the common areas are heated mostly by hot water coils that are on a boiler system.

In many cases the utility situation dictates what type of system gets used... Natural gas, Co-op steam, solar power etc...

Bet that monthly utility bill was a killer in the winter.

GT

[MHall]

When you say new construction, are you referring to a specific type of building?

A lot of the skyscrapers in Manhattan don't have boilers. They run off of con-ed steam. Hospitals and colleges here generally have their own plants. There's also a handful of rather large apartment/co-op complexes here that still run hi pressure steam.

Isn't Con Edison Steam used only in older buildings as well?? Wouldn't the newer buildings in New York, most likely use electric elements, or heat pump?? I have heard others in the field say that no newely constructed buildings will install steam or hot water heat, because of the size and maintaince that a boiler entails.

I greatly appreciate the diffrent opinions.Either way, it is an interesting discussion topic related to this field.

[timmy2734]

Like GT Jets said, that electric bill would be crazy. Steam is alive and well in NYC

Who exactly told you that no buildings will install steam or hot water heat? Maybe they were referring to your area? If electric heat is the cheaper of the options then yeah, I can understand that. But that doesn't apply here nor many other places.

[MHall]

Like GT Jets said, that electric bill would be crazy. Steam is alive and well in NYC

Who exactly told you that no buildings will install steam or hot water heat? Maybe they were referring to your area? If electric heat is the cheaper of the options then yeah, I can understand that. But that doesn't apply here nor many other places.

The statement "no buildings will install steam or hot water heat" refers to new construction. As I said earlier, boilers for heating appears to be something that was last installed in buildings built during the 1970s.

I did read about a building in my area that had heat-reclaim chillers. I suppose that would use a hydronic heat loop. However, it was an older building, which supports my theory that hot water heat is a technology no longer used in new construction.

I would quess that steam is used in NY, due to the abundance of older buildings that continue to utilize radiators.

I welcome, any additonal thoughts or information about the field.

[GT Jets]

Blanket statement coming up....

ANYONE who installs electric heat in a new building when alternatives are available is cheating it's customer.

Electric heat is the 30+year old technology, not boilers.

Every building I service that does not have air to air heat pumps has a hot water system.

Water source heat pumps still use boilers as their primary source of heat.

GT

[timmy2734]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, Steam is alive and well. It's not just old buildings that use it. Not sure where you came up with that assumption?

http://www.fmmcorp.com/project/detai...rs.html/page:1

If you scroll thru Fresh Meadows Mechanical projects, you'll see that boilers are still being installed. 1 World Trade is heated with con-ed steam.

[MHall]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, Steam is alive and well. It's not just old buildings that use it. Not sure where you came up with that assumption?

http://www.fmmcorp.com/project/detai...rs.html/page:1

If you scroll thru Fresh Meadows Mechanical projects, you'll see that boilers are still being installed. 1 World Trade is heated with con-ed steam.

I thought that the new 1 WTC was going to be heated with natural gas fuel cells which would produce electricity and waste heat ?? The old Twin Towers did use Con Ed Steam, which came from the East River Plant.

Speaking of the former twin towers, they had one of the largest refrigeration plants in the world. 7-7000 ton York Chillers, which used Hudsen River water for condensing rather than traditional cooling towers. I would have loved to have visited that Plant.

[BaldLoonie]

Around here, many mid sized buildings still use boiler/chiller. Or maybe HP with tower and boiler. Smaller office buildings will use a big RTU with gas heat or strips in the perimeter. The new downtown big builds will be on city steam and chilled water. Indy has one of the largest district steam system in the country. 60% of the steam is produced in a coal plant, 40% comes from burning garbage.

[SteveStohr]

Power plants using high pressure water tube steam boilers have 24 hour supervision they can get up to about 3200 psi.

Google high and low pressure steam boilers operator book. This will have the type of info your looking for.