$%&*@#

[MadeinUSA]

The first time Hillary was president she said she would do something about insurance. Oh but she had a republician congress and they shut her down.

Now if Hillary is elected to the first chair, she will have a democrate congress and can hook us up some insurance.

That is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever seen written. If she was capable of designing and writing a good plan, it would have been passed because both sides would have benefited come election time when conducting the face to face with the voters bragging about what they accomplished. She had 8 years to do something and Nada, zilch.

She has had 6 more years as a congress member with 2 to go. Same thing. Nada, zilch.

What in the hell makes you think after 16 frigging years of not being able to think and design a solution she will be able to now.

It was the Clinton’s Trojan horse to get him in office last time, and it is the same Trojan horse they will use again accept this time with just a slight twist to it. They will direct it towards the children.

You people keep kissing the Democrat’s feet and will not look at the cold hard facts which is they will tell the poor every 2 years how deprived they are, and DO NOT produce once in office.

Just look at their first 100 hours they bragged about. Nada, Zilch, NOTHING.

Need I say more?

[Milk man]

That is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever seen written. If she was capable of designing and writing a good plan, it would have been passed because both sides would have benefited come election time when conducting the face to face with the voters bragging about what they accomplished. She had 8 years to do something and Nada, zilch.

She has had 6 more years as a congress member with 2 to go. Same thing. Nada, zilch.

What in the hell makes you think after 16 frigging years of not being able to think and design a solution she will be able to now.

It was the Clinton’s Trojan horse to get him in office last time, and it is the same Trojan horse they will use again accept this time with just a slight twist to it. They will direct it towards the children.

You people keep kissing the Democrat’s feet and will not look at the cold hard facts which is they will tell the poor every 2 years how deprived they are, and DO NOT produce once in office.

Just look at their first 100 hours they bragged about. Nada, Zilch, NOTHING.

Need I say more?

It's the biggest load of crap? Because I wrote it to be the biggest load of crap.

You sir, are 100% correct on all your statements. It was a Trojan horse that got him elected. She only gave lip service to the Health crisis then gave up.

She will be exposed for the person she is if she is elected. And won't be able to hid behind the excuss of a Republician congress shot everything down.

[Diceman]

Look all well things are going with the Repubs in control now??
The worst 6 years in our nations history.
Even the conservatives are finally waking up to the bozo's in Washinton.
Let's see, war, defecits up the wazoo, environmental disasters on the horizon, Abramhoff scandals, Haliburton rip offs, sex scandals, lowest poll ratings ever, crime is up, jobs gone, did I mention the war?
The 8, count em 8, Clinton years were the best by comparison.
End of story.

[MadeinUSA]

The worst 6 years in our nations history.

The stock market is setting records, lowest unemployment in decades, low interest rates driving a record number for minority home ownerships and capital growth, 19 straight quarters of steady growth.

Keep posting the doom and gloom. It makes for a good laugh.

[MadeinUSA]

It's the biggest load of crap? Because I wrote it to be the biggest load of crap.

It was late and I missed your sarcasm.

[Diceman]

The stock market is setting records, lowest unemployment in decades, low interest rates driving a record number for minority home ownerships and capital growth, 19 straight quarters of steady growth.

Keep posting the doom and gloom. It makes for a good laugh.

Worst job creation of any prez, highest number of bankruptcies, jobs going overseas like crazy, 43 million without health care, new jobs are all min wage junk jobs at Walmart and such, cost of living eating up any wage increase so that the Ameican fam is actually behind so that both parents must work long hours, defecit at ridiculous high levels and we borrow 2 billion a day if ya think we ain't gonna have to pay for that someday you are nutz, and the stocks are good right now due to increase profits for a very few, that won't last but I hope it does as I have a lot of investments in it. I am thinking of selling em soon.
Anyway, if you think the corrupt bunch of liars in DC are good, keep voting for them but change your name from made in usa.

Why didn't you bring up the war?
Maybe your kid isn't going back there next month like mine is.

[orlandotech]

without getting too off topic, can someone here, maybe gruntly, explain the pros and cons of universal healthcare. I haven't paid much attention because it sounds like a pipedream because of the lobbyists and such for the insurance industry that buy votes to protect their multimillion dollar paychecks.

[MadeinUSA]

Worst job creation of any prez,

Enjoy.
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.
CBS, NBC, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing, "It's Not Easy Being Green."
Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, "We shall overcome." Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.
Tom Daschle and John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Peter Jennings that the
ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share."
Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act," retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.
Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients.
The ant loses the case.
The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it.
The ant has disappeared in the snow.
The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now
abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful
neighborhood.

highest number of bankruptcies,

Thank Clinton for his fake economy

jobs going overseas like crazy,

Thank your Clinton for NAFTA

43 million without health care,

maybe they should get educated so they can get good enough jobs that provide good healthcare

new jobs are all min wage junk jobs at Walmart and such,

That is not what I see in my big fat newspaper

cost of living eating up any wage increase so that the Ameican fam is actually behind so that both parents must work long hours,

Not true. Inflation is under control

defecit at ridiculous high levels and we borrow 2 billion a day if ya think we ain't gonna have to pay for that someday you are nutz,

We are at war, and it isn’t free.

and the stocks are good right now due to increase profits for a very few, that won't last but I hope it does as I have a lot of investments in it. I am thinking of selling em soon.

It will stay good because all the tax cuts that allowed companies to invest is kicking in to over drive and is building a “sound” economy, not the “fake” economy Clinton built.

Anyway, if you think the corrupt bunch of liars in DC are good, keep voting for them but change your name from made in usa.

LOL they are all corrupt. That is why they are all in step to create the north American Union. The bastards. I see another Che stepping forward if they do.

Why didn't you bring up the war?

Why, so we can debate the BS the media wants to show, and not the good things that have happened?

Maybe your kid isn't going back there next month like mine is.

Dice, I pray to God he stays safe and God watches over him while he is there, and tell him I said thanks for serving for us.
Who really knows what all the true reasons are for all this when we can not have access to all the information.

We are just ants on the playing field.

Cheers pops.

[The Penguin]

without getting too off topic, can someone here, maybe gruntly, explain the pros and cons of universal healthcare. I haven't paid much attention because it sounds like a pipedream because of the lobbyists and such for the insurance industry that buy votes to protect their multimillion dollar paychecks.

Universal health care:

you pay in our case a family of four $108.00 month for complete coverage for your family no deductables -( prescription charges apply dispensing fee $5 to $25 per) if you can't pay welfare picks up the tab

you get the same coverage weather you are wealthy or poor you have the same access to the same specialists - you just have to hope your GP can get you into the right specialists when you need it.

techinally if you have to have a hip operation you wait in line with every one else - no Que jumping by paying it for your self is allowed - some exceptions workers compensation civil servenants (police/firefighters) can sometimes jump the que


Another example: a friend's wife boobs were too big and she needed a boob reduction (DD to C) got a refferal from a GP to a surgen and in 4 weeks she had surgery a 7-8000.00 operation and no cost to the patient.
A friend of mine kid had open heart surgery when he was 2 - all covered and by the best in the biz too.

My wifes brother had cancer all sugery, treatments, etc completly covered inc food he had to eat during his recovery


There are some things not covered eg boob enhancements or cosmetic work
but As I recall all medically necessary medical needs are covered for a family or a couple or a single person for very little dough

right now the big american and multinational corps are trying to weasel their way in with US style medical care and that weasel harper is caving slowely

we don't need the system changed to us style medical care its fine as it is. I enjoy seeing the wealthy wait in line too.

[gruntly]

Nice explanation, Pen. Works for me.

I will apologize for the length right up front.

The hospitals, for the most part, are publicly(government) owned... They cannot prevent any person in need from entering any hospital or clinic and receiving treatment. As Pen mentioned, there are some exceptions. Cosmetic and elective surgeries may have some outside clinics, but they are even compensated at the going rate from the government for the basic covered service provided. The government sets the guidelines. Extra moneys can be billed if extra services are provided. My father had 2 hernias done, one 25 years ago and the other 10 years ago, in a private clinic on Bayview Ave in Toronto, which was basically like a hotel, but he had to pay some extra, but not a lot. Some people see this as 2 tiering, which it is, but as long as it remains as part of cosmetics and electives it seems to be rather harmless.

We are all given a coveted Government issued health card. When you go to the Doctor, nurse, hospital or a clinic for nosebleads, stitches, x-rays, MRIs, lab-work, physicals, having babies, basically anything, they ask for the healthcard so they can transfer the funds from the government to the Doctor or hospital or a clinic to maintain operation. The G.Ps are paid well here but they are capped at some mid 6 digit number. At this point some doctors will either slowdown or go on vacation. Bad for sick guys, good for young up and coming doctors. My daughter has recently had her ACL replaced with an achilles tendon. This was done by one of the best sports injury Docs. in the country. Everything pertaining to the hospital, operation and recovery was covered by public funds. Not the physiotherapy though.

We don't seem to complain as much as you people south of us do about health care and it's costs. My wife and I have a good friend, who is a doctor and he is well compensated and the only complaint he has is the same complaint the jumps borders. THE COST OF HIS LIABILITY INSURANCE.
Doctors that specialize are on a different pay scale and lets face it, if the pay wasn't comparable to what your Doctors make, all of ours would have moved south years ago.
Your hospitals and clinics seem to us to be all privately owned and operated. This seems to add the burden of business to an already stressed system. Profitteering at the expence of a life in desparate need isn't very civilized, if you ask me. The thought of my family being burdened with not only the cost of trying to maintain a household as well as paying for a serious medical injury or condition for me freightens the hell out of me... And the thought of ignoring some condition because it will cost to have it looked at just isn't sane. Now I know you can buy insurances, etc, but from what I know, most insurances have deductables and are always ready for a lawsuit if things don't go their way. For basic medical, it is all covered. There is way more than what is mentioned here concerng our system, such as the elderly are only charged dispensary fees for drugs, etc. Remember, this is handled by a common core administration, not a corperate suit that is trying to please the shareholders. This is one of the expensive parts of living in this country, but it is a burden carried by all of us through our taxes.

There are plenty of those that try and do take advantage of the system. From hypodermic needle users to hypocondriacs. But it is something that we have to live with. They are continually trying to upgrade the security around this system because they have to deal with stolen and counterfeit medical cards as people from other countries try to get free medical service. I would be sure you're very aware of how expensive medical services can be.

Our system has been studied by people all around the world including the U.S. I can't even imagine what a huge undertaking it would be for the U.S. to try and impliment it now and the fight from privately business' would try to prevent it from ever happening. Most optometry and dental are not covered unless it is causing medical distress. Optometry checks are covered for the young and old. the guys in the middle now have to pay. Even ambulances have a flat user fee of $75.00 these days.

We are in the midsts of trying to prevent some parts of our system from entering the private world. Only the ones who can afford it want it, because they think it will help them to get service faster.

Pen mentioned first come first serve, but it depends on the severity of your condition. When I passed a kidney stone during the summer on my right side, I was immediately brought in to the emerge. There is always a possibliity it could be an appendix. As soon as you walk in the door they do triage to sort the order in which you will be looked at.

[orlandotech]

it sounds like a win, win situation. I wish they would come up with a US version soon but I know the politics end of life would cause it not to happen. I know that healthcare is expensive and i don't have health ins. because the co. I work for is small and they can't afford it yet ( maybe someday ) and I'm unmarried so I can't use her healthcare so I'm kinda stuck hoping that I won't get deathly sick anytime soon ( even though I smoke cigs. yes I know I should quit but maybe I'll try this year ). anyway I have a bad back but I have been reluctant to go in and see the doc again because of the no health ins. issue ( degenative disc disease ) and I know that it' s only a matter of time before I an completely crippled but I would like to have it looked at before then because I think it's getting worse since the last time ( about nine years ago ). Yeah I know blah, blah, blah poor me but the sh*t hurts sometimes.

[Carnak]

The one thing I miss about paying taxes was the health care coverage

[Diceman]

Clinton signed NAFTA, and it was a mistake no doubt.
The repubs were all on board, only one against it was Ross Perot.
Clinton had the defecit under control he also was balancing the budget, he also put more cops on the street, he also was smart, a self made man and worked hard at his job. He was far from perfect but he was so much better than Bush who failed at every biz he was ever set up by his Daddy, including the one he has now. Many repubs and conservatives are finally waking up to the administration and how poorly it is being run. You can argue all you want but history will show who was right here, trust me.
Thanks for the concern over my son.

[gruntly]

Thanks for the concern over my son.

Sorry, I just read this.

Wow! My children go/went to school with quite a few friends who are on the verge of being sent to Afghanistan.

If you believe in the cause then they can only do great things towards what lays before them. If you don't, there is no consollation. Either way, they must believe that they are unanimously supported in their effort. Even if it is the older generation that engages them in this type of conflict, it should be reasoned that they are doing this for themselves, their peers, their children and their future.. Not the old folks back home. It would be unfair for me, at the ripe old age of 46, to say to my 19 year old son, "I'm retiring. You support me in my lifestyle from now on!", but it is a different story if I say, "I'm still working, here and now. Now, get your butt up and go seek your future! You and your peers are responsible for it"

Pride and Fear is like a Black Russian. Depending on what kind of day you've had will decide whether the Vodka or Kahlua will leave the predominant taste in your mouth.

May your son, and all sons and daughters engaged in these conflicts, seek their future in any and all their travels and return with a world of stories to rock you and the rest of the old folks to sleep at night.

May diplomacy win for once.

Your northern confrere. T.

[The Penguin]

Nice summary of the medical system Gruntly.

I'd like to add:
the Doctor determines where you are going to sit on the waiting list - they are as far as I can tell objective in their analysis and its is a relatively Fair system for all rich or poor. The really rich can choose to go to the USA or some other foreign Country and Pay for their treatment if they want.

A Gp rate for a visit is woefully underfunded at 30.00 no matter how long he spends with the patent and Medical services plan claws back billings if the Gp exceeds the max allowable for the yr. Bear in mind that 30.00 has to pay for EVERYTHING the receptionist the rent the power bill the telephone etc and the drtrs wages too.
Your average GP bills MSP 250K per yr but pays 100K or more for expenses.
sheet a dentist or vet makes more

All the dealings I have had with the Canadian medical system have been very satisfying to say the least - the insurance companies that provide extended medical/dental coverage on the other hand have been very poor - because they are privatly run and therefore turn a profit and take every oppertunity to screw you (They generally are American based)

It would be a sad day if these vulchures got their way with our core medical system.

[Diceman]

Nice summary of the medical system Gruntly.



All the dealings I have had with the Canadian medical system have been very satisfying to say the least - the insurance companies that provide extended medical/dental coverage on the other hand have been very poor - because they are privatly run and therefore turn a profit and take every oppertunity to screw you (They generally are American based)

Worth reading again.

[Carnak]

My wifes brother had cancer all sugery, treatments, etc completly covered inc food he had to eat during his recovery

yep my mother is very thankful for the system as well.

[Diceman]

yep my mother is very thankful for the system as well.

Don't tell us Yankess that, we are scared of change.
Plus the big drug and insurance companies need our money.