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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    georgia
    Posts
    16

    Replacing the outdoor unit only

    Hi guys,
    I have a techs saying that..."you can replace the outdoor 410a 13seer without replace the indoor r22 13seer coil". Just flush the lineset and run nitrogen through the coil to use for r410. I would like to get some opinion on it.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,657
    Not a good practice to compromise the efficiency, warranty and shorten the system life by not installaing a matched system.

    It is a decision most people regret in a short while.
    Aire Serv of SW Connecticut- Gas heat, dual fuel and central a/c systems installed and serviced

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,365
    Depends on the manufacturer of the indoor coil. If the indoor coil is rated for 410A it shouldn't be a problem.
    How much any oil left in the system after the flush effects longevity is the only thing that remains a mystery.
    Since the procedure is relatively new in the field its probably going to take another 5 to 10 years to collect any solid data.
    I have one that I did a few years ago and have not had any problems so far. My biggest concern is whether a manufacturer will void the warranty if the system is not a factory match.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,066
    How are they flushing the line set? I doubt if someone is just going to change the outside unit they will cut the lines at the evaporator. The most they would probably do is run nitro through the lines and evap from the outside valves.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,845
    Quote Originally Posted by rebeltech View Post
    Hi guys,
    I have a techs saying that..."you can replace the outdoor 410a 13seer without replace the indoor r22 13seer coil". Just flush the lineset and run nitrogen through the coil to use for r410. I would like to get some opinion on it.
    Thanks
    There are HACKS, and there are PROFESSIONALS. It's just depends on what type of buyer you have. There are many "penny wise" buyers. Of course, the Hacks appeal to them.

    Professionals typically deal with educated consumers.
    This is because professionals put in the effort to educate, not only their customers, but also themselves.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,121
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    My biggest concern is whether a manufacturer will void the warranty if the system is not a factory match.
    On my invoice from the supply house.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    501
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    How are they flushing the line set? I doubt if someone is just going to change the outside unit they will cut the lines at the evaporator. The most they would probably do is run nitro through the lines and evap from the outside valves.
    We have done some and we will do some more.

    We cut lines at air handler. Flush line set. Blow nitrogen through indoor coil. and re install correct piston/ txv.

    If the manufacturer will say it will work.
    And hopefully we can save the customer a few $.
    Or get them by for a few years until they can afford change the AH out.

    But i agree not the best practice. But it does work and i have not seen any thing go wrong with them "yet" other then not a correct seer rating. But with the duct work in most homes anyways they are not going to get all the benefit of the energy efficiency anyways.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    501
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    On my invoice from the supply house.

    We dont see that around here.
    Our ruud supply house. Sells to one man and a truck unlicensed all the time. (The manager says he doesnt but i know he does because one guy that buys them used to work for us)
    He installs them then calls us because he does not know how to troubleshoot a x13 motor, or to trouble shoot bad txv etc.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,121
    Quote Originally Posted by klee7013 View Post
    Our ruud supply house. Sells to one man and a truck unlicensed all the time.
    I am seeing this more and more all the time, there used to be one or two supply houses that sold to anyone, I personally know of 5 now. I personally know the owner of one of them, he has made a fortune selling to anyone. I guess soon someone will file a discrimination law suit and make all supply houses sell to everyone, it's the way of the world now.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Chapel Hill
    Posts
    135
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Depends on the manufacturer of the indoor coil. If the indoor coil is rated for 410A it shouldn't be a problem.
    How much any oil left in the system after the flush effects longevity is the only thing that remains a mystery.
    Since the procedure is relatively new in the field its probably going to take another 5 to 10 years to collect any solid data.
    I have one that I did a few years ago and have not had any problems so far. My biggest concern is whether a manufacturer will void the warranty if the system is not a factory match.
    I heard that all indoor coil released after 2008 are rated for both R22 and 410a.
    i also heard that not only the oil will be the problem but also 410a is much more higher pressure. The indoor coil might not able to last long.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,505
    Supply houses can make a lot more profit when selling directly to hacks/homeowners since they can get away with charging them a lot more than licensed contractors. Then there are all the online sellers...

    As far as the 410 unit on a R22 coil consider the old coil is much smaller than a new coil of the same tonnage. And how nasty is that old R22 coil that was installed 15years ago? Do you really think airflow will be fine?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,365
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    ......
    As far as the 410 unit on a R22 coil consider the old coil is much smaller than a new coil of the same tonnage. And how nasty is that old R22 coil that was installed 15years ago? Do you really think airflow will be fine?
    If I understood the OP right it sounded like he had a 13 SEER R-22 coil already. In that case there shouldn't be any problem with the size of the coil as far as 410A is concerned since the indoor coil has the same SEER rating as the new unit would have. I've seen a lot of mismatched R-22 systems outlast a lot of factory matched R-22 systems so I think the jury is still out on the R-410A change out thing. As for the R-22 coil being able to handle the higher pressure, I'm not so sure they made 410A coils any different or used any thicker copper. I wouldn't be surprised if all they did was tested the coils at a higher pressure to rate them for 410A. I'd like to hear from someone familiar with the manufacturing process what really changed.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,505
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    If I understood the OP right it sounded like he had a 13 SEER R-22 coil already. In that case there shouldn't be any problem with the size of the coil as far as 410A is concerned since the indoor coil has the same SEER rating as the new unit would have. I've seen a lot of mismatched R-22 systems outlast a lot of factory matched R-22 systems so I think the jury is still out on the R-410A change out thing. As for the R-22 coil being able to handle the higher pressure, I'm not so sure they made 410A coils any different or used any thicker copper. I wouldn't be surprised if all they did was tested the coils at a higher pressure to rate them for 410A. I'd like to hear from someone familiar with the manufacturing process what really changed.
    If it is 13SEER it makes me wonder what killed the relatively new outdoor unit. Didn't the 13SEER minimum hit about the same year that R22 systems weren't supposed to be installed anymore? But I agree, if coil size and pressure ratings are the same there shouldn't be any differences between R22 and 410 coils. IMHO newer coils are using thinner copper, hence why we find so many leakers.

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