What do you look for in a new tech. ? ( Your input is desperatly needed )

[ga-hvac-tech]

ATTITUDE... attitude, attitude... Did I say ATTITUDE???

Few make it, because most do not want to make it... The ones that do want to make it... most do.

One thing I did not see reading the thread: An interview before starting school... where you (or the interviewer) explain who TUFF and HARD this trade is. Weed them out BEFORE the first day of class. If you start with at least half the kids wanting to succeed... rather than 10%... then the drop-outs will make the losers the minority. With that ratio... you just might truly have a 'learning environment'...

Please keep us informed as to how the class goes.

[timebuilder]

The point I was attempting to make (above) is that schools won't let you vet students, because that's less money for THEM.

Hence, no vetting, no filtering, warm bodies in seats,...

that's the way you do it, play the guitar on the MTV....

[Core_d]

The point I was attemprting to make (above) is that schools won't let you vet students, because that's less money for THEM.

Hence, no vetting, no filtrering, warm bodies in seats,...

that's the way you do it, play the guitar on the MTV....

If my school did much filtering it would likley be bankrupt. As long as your check dont bounce you will leave with a peice of paper. Personaly I would be a little ashamed if I could not fix my own furnace after 3/5 the way completed.

[Mike19]

Others have hit on these items too...

Apperance is a big thing. My company won't hire men with long hair, earrings, piercings, visable tatoos etc. When applicants go to the interview they need to be clean and act professional.

We have a new tech that thinks he knows everything, has a very high opinion of himself, but in fact is kind of dumb. I think you can be a lot more successful if you have the attitude that you don't know everything, and you are always learning new things.

New techs need to know troubleshooting. It is hard to cover every piece of equipment in a school setting, but a lot of the basic skills will cover most situations. Sequence of operation, schematics, safety devices.

Know how electricity works. Figure out where you should have power, and if you don't have power, trace down where you are losing it. Go over three phase real good. Go over using a meter real good.

Techs need to be able to use there knowledge to think for themselves. Not just when you are new but for your whole life - keep thinking. They need to have the mindset of keep thinking, keep figuring it out, and keep learning.

Calling for help is good when you are stuck, but one of our techs just called this morning because he couldn't figure out why his 240v 3 phase compressor won't start, since he has 120v to ground on all three terminals. I asked him to check betweeen terminal 1 and terminal 2, 2 and 3, and 1 and 3 for all 3phases of 240, and he called back 5 minutes later and said yes I still have 120v to ground. By the way, I've been over using a meter to check for power with him about 20 times, but sometimes no matter how hard you try, some people think they know everything and don't want to learn.

[ga-hvac-tech]

The point I was attempting to make (above) is that schools won't let you vet students, because that's less money for THEM.

Hence, no vetting, no filtering, warm bodies in seats,...

that's the way you do it, play the guitar on the MTV....

If my school did much filtering it would likley be bankrupt. As long as your check dont bounce you will leave with a peice of paper. Personaly I would be a little ashamed if I could not fix my own furnace after 3/5 the way completed.

I realized in the 1970's that education was a business for profit... not an opportunity for enlightenment. And with govt handouts growing on trees... why should the schools do anything else than play the govt game and get the bucks.

The aircraft mechanics program I went through in the mid 1970's... less than 10% graduated... yet close to 80% were on GI bill (Viet Nam vets). Now I am all for giving vets a chance... however it was obvious the school was about ONE thing... milking the govt. I could have learned more in 90 days on the internet (yeah, it was not available then); than I learned in 24 mos of 5 nights a week until midnite.

What I did learn was to 'stick it out'... and was rewarded with an "A&P" license... which is a license to work on airframes and powerplants, issued by the FAA. I do not use it anymore, as the insurance is WAAAY too expensive to do free-lance aircraft maintenance, and working for the airlines is a graveyard job... which is not my cup of tea.

Back on subject... the school was a joke... unless the goal was to get everyone except the ones who would endure ANYTHING to work on airplanes to quit... well they did get rid of close to 90% of the folks us taxpayers paid to go to school for awhile.

[Core_d]

I realized in the 1970's that education was a business for profit... not an opportunity for enlightenment. And with govt handouts growing on trees... why should the schools do anything else than play the govt game and get the bucks.

The aircraft mechanics program I went through in the mid 1970's... less than 10% graduated... yet close to 80% were on GI bill (Viet Nam vets). Now I am all for giving vets a chance... however it was obvious the school was about ONE thing... milking the govt. I could have learned more in 90 days on the internet (yeah, it was not available then); than I learned in 24 mos of 5 nights a week until midnite.

What I did learn was to 'stick it out'... and was rewarded with an "A&P" license... which is a license to work on airframes and powerplants, issued by the FAA. I do not use it anymore, as the insurance is WAAAY too expensive to do free-lance aircraft maintenance, and working for the airlines is a graveyard job... which is not my cup of tea.

Back on subject... the school was a joke... unless the goal was to get everyone except the ones who would endure ANYTHING to work on airplanes to quit... well they did get rid of close to 90% of the folks us taxpayers paid to go to school for awhile.

I see the schools point of view. And the imformation is their if you want it. I could not have learned what i have so far by myself online (even with this forum). Im just say'n.

[ga-hvac-tech]

There was a time when excellence was the goal... now we think schools that mooch off govt waste are legitimate organizations...

Anyone wonder why our country is going down the tubes.

[SuperChill]

Vetting is a dirty word beacuse it implies elitism of some sort, I am going to find a test of some sort like they do in corporate america in order to weed out those who really are not ready to make the commitment . I understand the importance of having the ability to work with your hands, I think every man should take shop or something similiar and be able to work with his hands but it gets frustrating watching some kid not appply himself when I know how important it is for a man to be able to suppport and provide for his family and a trade is a way to do it .

[SuperChill]

We need experienced guys like yourself to volunteer at a local trade schools for hvac ( non profit of course-not the $ 9000-30,000 deals-they make a isht load of money and can pay you for your time) and let us know what you want, let the students hear it from you -the pro's about what its really like out there .

[toocoolforschool]

I went thru machinist mate A school in the navy and we all graduated and it was alot of studying and memorizing but they set us up for success not failure like the schools in the real world.

[OldSchoolMech]

^^^^ speak for the USA are we??


Canada has some awesome trade schools as well as the bad bunch.

[Cagey57]

Back to the OP

...Just what exactly would you that work in the trade like to see in a new tech. fresh out of school ? What kind of training did you yourself get that you feal was of great benefit to you in getting that first shot in your careers... !

I want to see a "new tech, fresh out of school" that understand that he may have knowledge but lacks experience ! They don't/can't "Know it all", Ever !!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to see someone that has a solid work ethic (as many have refered to previously). That means give at least 99%, 110% of every hour they are at work.

I expect them to know how to conduct themselves with bacic civility and show respect to EVERYONE, even when they don't deserve it !!!! Especially Me, cause I can be a real Jerk sometimes

IMO, as an instructor you cannot "Teach" someone how to troubleshoot problems. My definition of troubleshooting is.. Using Diagnostics and experience to analyze the situation and select the highest probaility of failure. You cannot troubleshoot a problem unless you KNOW how to diagnosis it and have the experience to make educated guesses (yes I said guesses) to quickly find the problem. Teach Diagnostic Techniques and procedures, they will learn through experience how to "Troubleshoot" !

I want them to have a solid respect for tools. Their own and even more for other peoples.

I expect them to own their own basic tools. Not $1.49 screwdrivers, $3.99 Lock joint pliers and $9.99 sockets sets, decent tools.

I want them to know what their DMM can/cannot measure and how to actually use the dang thing. Like, how to use the Amps scale to jumper and AC circuit (<10 amps) instead of using a jumper that melts in their hands and that they should always Ohm the fuses before they condem a 3 phase motor.

I could go on but I think you get the idea SuperChill.

Good luck, you will need that and tons of dedication and determination.

Controls Cause Insanity

[Urbanrider]

SuperChill, do you know of any schools like yours (non profit) in the So Cal area ?
I'm in the Orange County area and am looking for a non profit school because most of the "for profit" schools suck. All they want is your $$ and hand you a piece of paper that says your qualified with little to NO help getting a real job. Any input from anyone on this would be greatly appreciated.

[toocoolforschool]

SuperChill, do you know of any schools like yours (non profit) in the So Cal area ?
I'm in the Orange County area and am looking for a non profit school because most of the "for profit" schools suck. All they want is your $$ and hand you a piece of paper that says your qualified with little to NO help getting a real job. Any input from anyone on this would be greatly appreciated.

Here's a tip, learn spanish, You will greatly improve your possibilties for job placement after schooling.

[mason]

I'll be honest, I have a lot of interest in someday starting or helping a non-profit HVAC school. I would focus on low income areas where it's "hard to find a job" and here's why. When kids grow up poor and with no apparent prospects there will almost always be one who gets the "hunger"(just look at the nfl, a lot of athletes are low income and found a way out), they desperately seek out a way to prove themselves and give great loyalty to someone who takes them in and mentors them, opens the door if you will. Anyone could apply to this school, they would be promised nothing or even lead to believe there was anything to be gained but a chance, the first month would be a brutal bootcamp, hottest part of the year, running, climbing, pulling things up onto platforms, nothing about HVAC except that you make it clear they know nothing, you yell at them with the intent of making them cry(sounds harsh I know), this would eliminate 50-75% by the end of the month but the ones that are left you at least know they can handle the physicality and the psychological mind fing that may not happen every day in this industry but it will happen at some point, if they are still there they get a shot at step 2.

By now you have beaten it into there heads during the earlier training that if they fail the upcoming drug test, they are fired. If they show up more than 15minutes late with no prior heads up, they are fired(I've been guilty of this but not when I was new). If they get on their phone during a non approved phone time, they are fired. By fired I mean you expell them from your program(everyone is welcome to come back and try again the next year). During step two you introduce them to residential HVAC equipment, in person with equipment that has been hopefully donated. You have a cut list of every part used on common equipment and you work through THEM finding that part and learning what it does, you tie this in with class time of diagrams and illustrations as well. Once they can visually identify every part, name what it does, and describe how it works, you turn on the equipment and now they SEE it operate, and start learning how those parts and functions interect. You take it one step at time, cut the blower off, what happens?, cut the condenser motor off, what happens?, lower the charge, what happens?, on and on and on. Once they can tell you how the parts work and how they relate you start polishing the prospects. They should already be cleaned up in appearance through all this but now you work on the resume and the interview. They will tell the interviewer abou their undying passion for this industry, they will tell the interviewer that they do what they are told with enthusiasm and to the best of ther abilities because they cherish the opportunity to have a career as wonderful as HVAC. In the background you would be networking with owners, letting them know about your program and that you are creating the best mold of new HVAC employees, hard working, reliable and willing to adapt. By only putting out graduates who are hungry for it and desperate to raise to the top your schools record will quickly speak for itself and owners will be calling YOU asking for who's ready.

There will even be some who couldn't hack it at first but after the wake up call that was your boot up their a** they might make it through after the 2nd attempt. Sometimes people just need a wakeup call to get moving.

If I've learned one thing in this industry, aside from that I know nothing, it's that the strongest(mentally, a little physically), most dedicated, and hungriest(knowledge, advancement) rise to the top and get through the adversity.

Now we just have to figure out a way to have good companies for these new hires to go to : )!

[SuperChill]

Thanks for your input everyone ,everytime I read your responses I get stronger as an instructor and my students benefit from your wisdom .

[SuperChill]

Unfortunately no , HVAC is a big money maker in schooling and no one wants to walk away from that

[timebuilder]

Vetting is a dirty word because it implies elitism of some sort, I am going to find a test of some sort like they do in corporate america in order to weed out those who really are not ready to make the commitment . I understand the importance of having the ability to work with your hands, I think every man should take shop or something similiar and be able to work with his hands but it gets frustrating watching some kid not appply himself when I know how important it is for a man to be able to suppport and provide for his family and a trade is a way to do it .

Since this thread has been called out of its tomb like Lazarus, let me add a little more.

"Vetting" does not imply "elitism." It indicates "discernment."

Every medical and law school decides who will be admitted. In fact, every college worth a tinker's dam has some sort of metric that it uses to assure itself that the student body has what it considers to be the right complement of students. Many schools use "racial diversity" as a metric, or "gender equality." Of course, they have nothing to do with aptitude or ability to succeed in any given feild, but it makes the public and the school's trustees feel better about themselves. Sometime, we elect a President to make us feel better about ourselves, which is a very expensive proposition.

At any rate, the idea is that not every potential HVAC student should be that. Some should be something else, and to try and make them into HVAC grads is a waste of resources of time and money. It is better for all concerned to be mindful of the student who can benefit from a given program, versus those who cannot.

That's not elitism. It is survival of the species.

[Core_d]

Most schools require a high school diploma, a 30 question multiple choice test you must get 17 right. And a check that wont bounce. Thats what it takes to get in. What should it take to graduate?

[atlasacservices]

For me it is a candidate who is honest, dependable, can pass a drug test, has a clean driving record, can work safely and understands the field they are getting into requires hard work, long hours and a life time of learning. Trade schools should provide a solid foundation for the candidate to learn the basics of HVAC, but most of the learning will be done on the job. It's okay to make mistakes (we all do it every day) but learn from them and try not to make them again. A candidate should take pride in their work. Communication and appearance matter when dealing with customers and the company the technician will work for one day.