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  1. #40
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    Aug 2012
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    Tell them to eat, drink and sleep hvac and after yrs and yrs they might understand what the hell is going on.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  2. #41
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    ATTITUDE... attitude, attitude... Did I say ATTITUDE???

    Few make it, because most do not want to make it... The ones that do want to make it... most do.

    One thing I did not see reading the thread: An interview before starting school... where you (or the interviewer) explain who TUFF and HARD this trade is. Weed them out BEFORE the first day of class. If you start with at least half the kids wanting to succeed... rather than 10%... then the drop-outs will make the losers the minority. With that ratio... you just might truly have a 'learning environment'...

    Please keep us informed as to how the class goes.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #42
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    19,560
    The point I was attempting to make (above) is that schools won't let you vet students, because that's less money for THEM.

    Hence, no vetting, no filtering, warm bodies in seats,...

    that's the way you do it, play the guitar on the MTV....
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  4. #43
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    Dec 2012
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    columbus, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    The point I was attemprting to make (above) is that schools won't let you vet students, because that's less money for THEM.

    Hence, no vetting, no filtrering, warm bodies in seats,...

    that's the way you do it, play the guitar on the MTV....
    If my school did much filtering it would likley be bankrupt. As long as your check dont bounce you will leave with a peice of paper. Personaly I would be a little ashamed if I could not fix my own furnace after 3/5 the way completed.

  5. #44
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    Oct 2012
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    Wisconsin
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    Others have hit on these items too...

    Apperance is a big thing. My company won't hire men with long hair, earrings, piercings, visable tatoos etc. When applicants go to the interview they need to be clean and act professional.

    We have a new tech that thinks he knows everything, has a very high opinion of himself, but in fact is kind of dumb. I think you can be a lot more successful if you have the attitude that you don't know everything, and you are always learning new things.

    New techs need to know troubleshooting. It is hard to cover every piece of equipment in a school setting, but a lot of the basic skills will cover most situations. Sequence of operation, schematics, safety devices.

    Know how electricity works. Figure out where you should have power, and if you don't have power, trace down where you are losing it. Go over three phase real good. Go over using a meter real good.

    Techs need to be able to use there knowledge to think for themselves. Not just when you are new but for your whole life - keep thinking. They need to have the mindset of keep thinking, keep figuring it out, and keep learning.

    Calling for help is good when you are stuck, but one of our techs just called this morning because he couldn't figure out why his 240v 3 phase compressor won't start, since he has 120v to ground on all three terminals. I asked him to check betweeen terminal 1 and terminal 2, 2 and 3, and 1 and 3 for all 3phases of 240, and he called back 5 minutes later and said yes I still have 120v to ground. By the way, I've been over using a meter to check for power with him about 20 times, but sometimes no matter how hard you try, some people think they know everything and don't want to learn.

  6. #45
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    The point I was attempting to make (above) is that schools won't let you vet students, because that's less money for THEM.

    Hence, no vetting, no filtering, warm bodies in seats,...

    that's the way you do it, play the guitar on the MTV....
    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    If my school did much filtering it would likley be bankrupt. As long as your check dont bounce you will leave with a peice of paper. Personaly I would be a little ashamed if I could not fix my own furnace after 3/5 the way completed.
    I realized in the 1970's that education was a business for profit... not an opportunity for enlightenment. And with govt handouts growing on trees... why should the schools do anything else than play the govt game and get the bucks.

    The aircraft mechanics program I went through in the mid 1970's... less than 10% graduated... yet close to 80% were on GI bill (Viet Nam vets). Now I am all for giving vets a chance... however it was obvious the school was about ONE thing... milking the govt. I could have learned more in 90 days on the internet (yeah, it was not available then); than I learned in 24 mos of 5 nights a week until midnite.

    What I did learn was to 'stick it out'... and was rewarded with an "A&P" license... which is a license to work on airframes and powerplants, issued by the FAA. I do not use it anymore, as the insurance is WAAAY too expensive to do free-lance aircraft maintenance, and working for the airlines is a graveyard job... which is not my cup of tea.

    Back on subject... the school was a joke... unless the goal was to get everyone except the ones who would endure ANYTHING to work on airplanes to quit... well they did get rid of close to 90% of the folks us taxpayers paid to go to school for awhile.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #46
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    Dec 2012
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    columbus, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I realized in the 1970's that education was a business for profit... not an opportunity for enlightenment. And with govt handouts growing on trees... why should the schools do anything else than play the govt game and get the bucks.

    The aircraft mechanics program I went through in the mid 1970's... less than 10% graduated... yet close to 80% were on GI bill (Viet Nam vets). Now I am all for giving vets a chance... however it was obvious the school was about ONE thing... milking the govt. I could have learned more in 90 days on the internet (yeah, it was not available then); than I learned in 24 mos of 5 nights a week until midnite.

    What I did learn was to 'stick it out'... and was rewarded with an "A&P" license... which is a license to work on airframes and powerplants, issued by the FAA. I do not use it anymore, as the insurance is WAAAY too expensive to do free-lance aircraft maintenance, and working for the airlines is a graveyard job... which is not my cup of tea.

    Back on subject... the school was a joke... unless the goal was to get everyone except the ones who would endure ANYTHING to work on airplanes to quit... well they did get rid of close to 90% of the folks us taxpayers paid to go to school for awhile.
    I see the schools point of view. And the imformation is their if you want it. I could not have learned what i have so far by myself online (even with this forum). Im just say'n.

  8. #47
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    There was a time when excellence was the goal... now we think schools that mooch off govt waste are legitimate organizations...

    Anyone wonder why our country is going down the tubes.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #48
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sacramento California
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    18
    Vetting is a dirty word beacuse it implies elitism of some sort, I am going to find a test of some sort like they do in corporate america in order to weed out those who really are not ready to make the commitment . I understand the importance of having the ability to work with your hands, I think every man should take shop or something similiar and be able to work with his hands but it gets frustrating watching some kid not appply himself when I know how important it is for a man to be able to suppport and provide for his family and a trade is a way to do it .

  10. #49
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sacramento California
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    18
    We need experienced guys like yourself to volunteer at a local trade schools for hvac ( non profit of course-not the $ 9000-30,000 deals-they make a isht load of money and can pay you for your time) and let us know what you want, let the students hear it from you -the pro's about what its really like out there .

  11. #50
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    Aug 2012
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    I went thru machinist mate A school in the navy and we all graduated and it was alot of studying and memorizing but they set us up for success not failure like the schools in the real world.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  12. #51
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    Feb 2012
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    Toronto Canada
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    ^^^^ speak for the USA are we??


    Canada has some awesome trade schools as well as the bad bunch.

  13. #52
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    Mar 2009
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    Several Miles from Sane
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    Back to the OP
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChill View Post
    ...Just what exactly would you that work in the trade like to see in a new tech. fresh out of school ? What kind of training did you yourself get that you feal was of great benefit to you in getting that first shot in your careers... !
    I want to see a "new tech, fresh out of school" that understand that he may have knowledge but lacks experience ! They don't/can't "Know it all", Ever !!!!!!!!!!!!

    I want to see someone that has a solid work ethic (as many have refered to previously). That means give at least 99%, 110% of every hour they are at work.

    I expect them to know how to conduct themselves with bacic civility and show respect to EVERYONE, even when they don't deserve it !!!! Especially Me, cause I can be a real Jerk sometimes

    IMO, as an instructor you cannot "Teach" someone how to troubleshoot problems. My definition of troubleshooting is.. Using Diagnostics and experience to analyze the situation and select the highest probaility of failure. You cannot troubleshoot a problem unless you KNOW how to diagnosis it and have the experience to make educated guesses (yes I said guesses) to quickly find the problem. Teach Diagnostic Techniques and procedures, they will learn through experience how to "Troubleshoot" !

    I want them to have a solid respect for tools. Their own and even more for other peoples.

    I expect them to own their own basic tools. Not $1.49 screwdrivers, $3.99 Lock joint pliers and $9.99 sockets sets, decent tools.

    I want them to know what their DMM can/cannot measure and how to actually use the dang thing. Like, how to use the Amps scale to jumper and AC circuit (<10 amps) instead of using a jumper that melts in their hands and that they should always Ohm the fuses before they condem a 3 phase motor.

    I could go on but I think you get the idea SuperChill.

    Good luck, you will need that and tons of dedication and determination.

    Controls Cause Insanity
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

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