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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    5,046
    Quote Originally Posted by udarrell View Post
    This thread illustrates why we need Radio & Television, telephone talk programs, that help to educate both the HVAC consumer & all the HVAC installers & Tech service personnel.

    There is a disparate need to reduce fossil fuel usage & for reducing utility bills; that won't happen with the average level of work being done in our industry.

    Educating the consumer is the only way this industry will turn around. Most company owners "not all" have no desire to size, install and repair equipment properly.

    Until the point in time comes that the consumer is aware of what to ask for and requires it, it will be business as usual.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
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    2,997
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    Educating the consumer is the only way this industry will turn around. Most company owners "not all" have no desire to size, install and repair equipment properly.

    Until the point in time comes that the consumer is aware of what to ask for and requires it, it will be business as usual.
    amen to that. but the don't want hvac companies will to continue to do what they learned
    when just getting into the biz. I had a guy tell me he would retire before installing heat pumps
    & high effieicney equipment. if it has a computer anything...he won't do it.

    you either rail against these guys or understand that theirs is
    the bid to use as the example of what not to do.
    the former is bad business, the latter is the compromise.
    in my experience.
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,046
    Quote Originally Posted by energy_rater_La View Post
    amen to that. but the don't want hvac companies will to continue to do what they learned
    when just getting into the biz. I had a guy tell me he would retire before installing heat pumps
    & high effieicney equipment. if it has a computer anything...he won't do it.

    you either rail against these guys or understand that theirs is
    the bid to use as the example of what not to do.
    the former is bad business, the latter is the compromise.
    in my experience.
    The thought pattern of not wanting to install heat pumps and high efficiency equipment is commonplace in our industry. Individuals do not want to take the time to become educated in the technical aspect of what is needed.

    The other side of the coin can put some of the blame on the manufacturers. When there primary concern is moving product and not requiring dealers to be technically competent at what they do.

    The dealers see this with the thought pattern that it should focus on marketing, and base the quality of there employees on sales quota and invoice dollar enhancement on each service call.

    Then you have the dealers that do take the time to become educated and do the job properly, and they know it will take X amount of time and material to do a job for XXX dollars. They get undercut on jobs by other dealers that will drop the technical aspect "load calculations,duct design,equipment commissioning,etc." but still charge the full dollar amount that it would take to do the job correctly.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    2,997
    yeah, I saw a different page of that book in duct sealing.
    homeowners paid hvac installer to seal ducts to meet Energy Star
    guidelines..put it in the contract..charged extra.
    when I went back to inspect..no mastic.

    its a long road, I wonder sometimes if I'll ever see standards upgraded
    in my 'useful' life! LOL!
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,324
    If your neighbor let some idiot install an oversized new higher efficiency HP on an old indoor air handler, then he bought nothing but trouble. Sad thing, but way too common. He should have called more than one firm, and never depend on just one, especially if the one offer him a "real deal". Also sounds like the outfit is simply chasing problems now, with his money!!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,324
    Ops, posted twice!

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    There's nothing about that story that would make me think there is an equipment problem. The comment about "Thermostat wired wrong" is a big BIG red flag! The problem started at equipment sizing and choosing to reuse a existing coil and ended with the isntaller not understanding how to wire up a heat pump correctly. I think your neighbor got what he paid for. Doesn't matter if the outside of the equipment had a big Orange, Blue or Red label.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    2,731
    ...
    his a/c "tech" has amazing sales skills...

    any chance you could direct this neighbor to our site?

    any "SYSTEM" brand I install will easily last fully beyond the manufacturers warranty, and condition the home I install it in. PERIOD.
    any customer that wants a "repair" or "upgrade" will get a lesson in what an a/c "SYSTEM" is.
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hiram, Ohio
    Posts
    207
    I have tried to gently get him to call another tech, but he is a stubborn old guy.. He certainly could have thrown out the HVAC company who wanted to fix it right the first time. But he's trash talking the poor HP, not the HP's fault. I don't say much, he likes me, and I want to keep it that way. I still need to ask him what was wrong this time.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,480
    Quote Originally Posted by troyport View Post
    I have tried to gently get him to call another tech, but he is a stubborn old guy.. He certainly could have thrown out the HVAC company who wanted to fix it right the first time. But he's trash talking the poor HP, not the HP's fault. I don't say much, he likes me, and I want to keep it that way. I still need to ask him what was wrong this time.
    Most home owners tend to believe the contractor that they have selected; they tend not to believe anyone else, & seldom want to call another contractor after the job has been completed. Too bad for them; but such is the way things tend to be...Yes, it's best to maintain friendships, as you could lose a friend & yet never change their mind.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Many times in life, you jsut have the bite your tongue, smile and nod. I was listening to soemone explain how they had bahavior issues with their cat and to make a long story short, they were using the same form of negative reenforcement you woudl with a dog. Ummm... that won't work. But it was pointless to even make the point. They weemed very convinced that it was simply a bad can and so they gave it away.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    KCMO
    Posts
    40
    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise, commentary, or ask questions of the OP here.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
    Last edited by beenthere; 04-23-2013 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Non Pro * Member

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,818
    bobbg, this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise, commentary or ask questions of the OP here.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Your post has been deleted.
    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
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