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  1. #27
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,307
    I see a couple problems here.

    First, the salesman should have done a proper Manual J and D. No question about it. the home owner is partially to blame. Ya thats right. If you as a HO'r don't want to educate yourself or you would rather continually repair an obviously bad install, then stop complaining and definitely don't blame a manufacture.

    Two: as someone already said (Udarrell, i think) serious red flag should go up when they tech couldn't wire a thermostat correctly. The Stat and the HP come with wiring diagrams, seriously read the instructions, it ain't that hard

    Three: I leave "educating the consumer" to the salesman. THATS THEIR JOB. (actually MY job ) As they say "Education starts in the home". The education continues AFTER the install is complete and you get paid. Insist on showing the consumer what they just invested in. SHOW them how the thing works. It may go in one ear and out the other, but educate them anyway. Show them what to look for, show them how the machine is suppose to sound and act. Show them any diagnostic lights they should look for if there is a problem.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hiram, Ohio
    Posts
    217
    Update on recent failure, a direct quote from my neighbor "half the power came loose inside" - which, translated I would think meant one leg of the high voltage was not connected properly.. This sounds like another result of the poor installation. Good part, only took about 30 minutes to fix, and it was no charge.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,537
    And another "red flag" pops up about quality of install.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,295
    Quote Originally Posted by troyport View Post
    Update on recent failure, a direct quote from my neighbor "half the power came loose inside" - which, translated I would think meant one leg of the high voltage was not connected properly.. This sounds like another result of the poor installation. Good part, only took about 30 minutes to fix, and it was no charge.
    DANG, is the Installer on drugs or was he just training his 6-year old nephew??
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    DANG, is the Installer on drugs or was he just training his 6-year old nephew??
    ? Good question. What it more lickly that the installing company was $$$ cheaper so the customer choose them over a another company that was higher priced. Look what he got. Repair after repair in a new system, time lost, energy bills effective, equipment damage.

    So the real question I like to ask the homeowner is did the installing company that was $$$ cheaper really save you any money? The answer is upfront yes but in the long run no.

    The funny things about problems like this is that the homeowner will defend the installing company because they don't want to think they made a mistake by choosing cheaper bid or contractor.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,179
    Sadly... this happens more than folks realize.

    Part of it is obviously bad HVAC co's... HACKS as we call them. However:

    IMO a goodly part of it is HO's who will not listen. I suspect if we started a thread (in the PRO section please) of horror stories of HO's who, through their stubborn-ness, caused themselves a mess with an HVAC change (or major repair), the stories would run into 30 or 40 pages.

    A WISE person will learn... IMO a less than wise (call them what you want) person will play games... usually at their own expense.

    Shame... there are lots of 'good' contractors out there who charge reasonable rates.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #33
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,188
    The funny things about problems like this is that the homeowner will defend the installing company because they don't want to think they made a mistake by choosing cheaper bid or contractor.

    I've found that homeowners always 'justify' their choices.
    that customer who put 2 three ton units on a house will never admit that
    1 4 ton would have sufficed. same for folks who spray foam walls & cellulose attic floor.
    back a$$wards.
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hiram, Ohio
    Posts
    217
    I wonder about this too.. I recently had a roof put on, full tear-off, ice and water shield, top of the line shingles. Cost a nice penny, but it was done right.. The neighbor ask for a quote from my roof guy, so he quoted a similar quality job, including re-working the attic ventilation since he gets huge ice jams every year, and he scoffed at the price. Mike

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by troyport View Post
    I wonder about this too.. I recently had a roof put on, full tear-off, ice and water shield, top of the line shingles. Cost a nice penny, but it was done right.. The neighbor ask for a quote from my roof guy, so he quoted a similar quality job, including re-working the attic ventilation since he gets huge ice jams every year, and he scoffed at the price. Mike
    Yes customers need to understand you either get quality for more $$$ or cheap price for hacks that only care about $$$.

    Do they save? Yes upfront but over the life of the System, roof etc.. NO!!! As they end up having to have the cheap stuff worked on sooner or need it repaired then where are there contractors that did the work? Idk but I do no that we get a lot of work from customers that went the cheap way. It's sad to see a system that was installed less then a year ago (complete system). With a refrigerant leak, wired wrong etc...

    You just want to shake them and say what where you thinking? Then they want to say something about the cost to repair being to high. I just say its flat rate but they should have warranty with the original installer or service provider? My most recent customer did just what I said and to be honest had submitted a estimate for the work and he choose to go with the cheaper guy who now want return his phone calls and when did said it would be two weeks before he can come out.

    Those type if companies or guys already got the money from the customer and could care less about fixing anything. As they no nothing about providing service after the sale or shoot even before they just talk a good game and do the work cheaper.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,179
    Our local TV 'consumer advocate' publicly says he is 'cheap'... (Clark Howard for the local folks).

    Personally... most of his advise I would not follow... he seems to truly believe one can get top quality for bottom price. MeThinks he is a media personality FIRST and common sense comes afterwards.

    Anyhow: It is a shame some folks do not realize most of the time they will get what they pay for.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Our local TV 'consumer advocate' publicly says he is 'cheap'... (Clark Howard for the local folks).

    Personally... most of his advise I would not follow... he seems to truly believe one can get top quality for bottom price. MeThinks he is a media personality FIRST and common sense comes afterwards.

    Anyhow: It is a shame some folks do not realize most of the time they will get what they pay for.
    Cheap price = cheap install. If he is truly offering the best install for less then others then he is not making any money!

    Just cutting prices down is not the answer but something had to give with the install otherwise he will drive himself out of business by bring the cheapest. Charge what you are worth not charge less the other companies just to get the work.

    I find it hard to belive that any company can do the same work for $1,000's of less without cutting out something. This is wear the customer never sees what he isn't doing only the price.

  12. #38
    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

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    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 05-06-2013 at 05:40 AM. Reason: non AOP Pro Member

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