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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    DFW, TX
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    673
    A True TUC is an extremely small undercounter unit, I bet that would be a challenge to install a TXV in there.

    I'm curious, do you ever run into design issues converting to TXV's? Like compressor starting issues, since no equalization of pressure during off cycles? Or do you ever get condensing units getting overloaded because the TXV will allow more flow than the cap tube did, especially on freezers?

    And do you install receivers & sightglasses on ever conversion you do? Or just oversized drier?

    This does seem extreme, and its a major modification to the original design of the equipment. Although I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just haven't ever done it before because "resdesign" is forbidden at my company, too many potential liabilities if things don't work out right, I guess.

    Curious as to how your company typically does this. It does seem convenient, since you could always have a Sporlan Q valve kit on your truck, whereas you can't possibly stock every cap tube replacement.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In the Hudson Valley of New York
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    1,941
    Quote Originally Posted by cjpwalker View Post
    The boss laid down the law a couple of years ago, and we no longer replace cap tubes. Convert to txv is the only option.
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahWes View Post
    Wow, that is extreme! I don't think cap tubes are THAT big of a problem. If you keep the condensers clean, they are very reliable. I know, I know....In the real world this is asking a lot.

    Just remember...For every box in which we are replacing a cap tube, there are 20 more that run for years and years with no service needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by trippintl0 View Post
    A True TUC is an extremely small undercounter unit, I bet that would be a challenge to install a TXV in there.

    I'm curious, do you ever run into design issues converting to TXV's? Like compressor starting issues, since no equalization of pressure during off cycles? Or do you ever get condensing units getting overloaded because the TXV will allow more flow than the cap tube did, especially on freezers?

    And do you install receivers & sightglasses on ever conversion you do? Or just oversized drier?

    This does seem extreme, and its a major modification to the original design of the equipment. Although I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just haven't ever done it before because "resdesign" is forbidden at my company, too many potential liabilities if things don't work out right, I guess.

    Curious as to how your company typically does this. It does seem convenient, since you could always have a Sporlan Q valve kit on your truck, whereas you can't possibly stock every cap tube replacement.
    I have installed the TXV in freezers dozens of times in place of the "El Cheapo we got to compete with the other low ball MFRs cap tube systems" and those systems are no longer a problem and after 5 different companies worked on it, you are the hero, and the pull down time is phenomenal. All I have ever got out of it was a happy cool running compressor, vs the over heating high super heated compressor due to the clogged Cap.

    I think the MFRs are shooting them selves in the foot, with the cost of a TXV vs the cost to pay a tech under warranty to replace compressors and cap tubes. We work for True, and we are doing this all the time.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
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    4,638
    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneTheJeep View Post

    I think the MFRs are shooting them selves in the foot, with the cost of a TXV vs the cost to pay a tech under warranty to replace compressors and cap tubes. We work for True, and we are doing this all the time.
    $2 worth of copper vs 15x that for a valve? I think you're wrong. When you're selling thousands of units, there is more profit with the cap tube and just rolling the dice with the warranty repairs. I don't think I've ever done warranty work for True. If the customer doesn't want to pay for a service agreement, they get what they deserve.
    Officially, Down for the count

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  4. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Central WA
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by trippintl0 View Post
    A True TUC is an extremely small undercounter unit, I bet that would be a challenge to install a TXV in there.

    I'm curious, do you ever run into design issues converting to TXV's? Like compressor starting issues, since no equalization of pressure during off cycles? Or do you ever get condensing units getting overloaded because the TXV will allow more flow than the cap tube did, especially on freezers?

    And do you install receivers & sightglasses on ever conversion you do? Or just oversized drier?

    This does seem extreme, and its a major modification to the original design of the equipment. Although I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just haven't ever done it before because "resdesign" is forbidden at my company, too many potential liabilities if things don't work out right, I guess.

    Curious as to how your company typically does this. It does seem convenient, since you could always have a Sporlan Q valve kit on your truck, whereas you can't possibly stock every cap tube replacement.
    I have put the valve outside the box on a couple of installs - around back behind the panel, then just insulate everything very well, then 1/4 in copper to feed it to the evap coil.

    No receiver, yes sight glass as nameplate charge is now out the window, and usually a c032s or c052s drier depending on the equipment.

    Most commercial equipment has starting components on it, so I haven't had an issue with compressors.

    No operational problems. Run it until it is near design temp, top off the charge to clear sight glass, and set superheat. The cap tube is quicker, easier, and cheaper, but it doesn't always last. Bad for the customer having it go down again, looks bad for us, and we warranty our repairs for a year so...

    As far as "redesign," I have so far never ran into a unit that was still under mfg warranty with a clogged cap tube. And, although engineers and design teams are all super smart and make really good decisions mechanically every time, we take the chance.

    Another mod we do is instead of counting on kitchen or maintenance people to heed the little sticker that says "clean condenser every 60 days," we put filter media on all kitchen condenser coils and replace it quarterly.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    673
    Yeah, I've done lots of warranty work for True, but never run across a clogged cap tube... takes longer than the first year usually for that to happen.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,381
    I did a true warranty recently. 8 months old short to ground. Fouled up system. True asked me to just flush it out as best as possible.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #33
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In the Hudson Valley of New York
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    1,941
    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    $2 worth of copper vs 15x that for a valve? I think you're wrong. When you're selling thousands of units, there is more profit with the cap tube and just rolling the dice with the warranty repairs. I don't think I've ever done warranty work for True. If the customer doesn't want to pay for a service agreement, they get what they deserve.
    You could have a point there?

    Quote Originally Posted by trippintl0 View Post
    Yeah, I've done lots of warranty work for True, but never run across a clogged cap tube... takes longer than the first year usually for that to happen.
    We have run into a couple, so a couple times every one else that has run into a couple adds up, minus the ones that never had a cap tube restriction in warranty?

    But back on track, I never replace cap tubes with cap tubes unless it is paid for by manufacturer.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Posts
    453
    I'd like to see some images of these mods...better yet a you tube video of you under a bar on your knees installing a tev in a spot it cannot be properly fit in place on for 1/3hp unit. Maybe on shop table as part of a refurb but on site?

    From what I see on commercial kitchen equipment, a clogged cap tube usually occurs near the half way point of the coolers life expectancy. When properly renewed, a new compressor & tube will take the cooler to it's grave.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Central WA
    Posts
    1,537
    Sorry, no pics at the moment. We got new phones in December, and they're gone, I guess. Anyway, I suppose it would look a lot like a guy on his knees strapping a new cap tube to the liquid line and stuffing everything back into place under a bar. I usually wheel the equipment off of the line into a back room or something, though. Work smarter not harder. Most of my stuff has been in kitchens.

    I wouldn't install a txv in a "spot it cannot be properly fit in place." I would choose a different spot. I make a lot more money than the guy who put it together the first time, so I'll get a little creative if I have to. The repair will look professional, and will be functional when I am done.

    I've done a true make table with drawers - mounted the valve externally behind the compressor, a delfield drawer unit with dual evaps. One valve in the middle that fed both, also mounted externally in a cavity next to the condenser coil -- that one was kind of cool. A couple of Victory upright reach-ins. Those are easy, though, as everything's right on top. I've done a couple of reach-in freezers, a True two-door, I think, and a Migali. Those are a pain as you have to drop the cover off of the evap assembly every time you want to make another turn on the valve.

    As far as taking the equipment to its grave, gosh I've only been doing these conversions for a couple of years (no compressors on any of these) and I haven't killed any of them yet. I'll let you know, but I'm pretty sure that any repair will last until it dies...

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Posts
    453
    As far as taking the equipment to its grave, gosh I've only been doing these conversions for a couple of years (no compressors on any of these) and I haven't killed any of them yet. I'll let you know, but I'm pretty sure that any repair will last until it dies...
    I think you misinterpreted my statement in post 34. What I meant was, restoring the unit to original specs should provide enough years of additional service to take the unit to it's life expectancy. But more power to you, good luck. I like experimenting but usually not an option when under the gun.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    799
    He means that, in most cases, a replaced cap tube will continue to work until the equipment is retired.

    I think it is very unusual to replace a cap tube twice. If someone claims thus, they either made sloppy mistakes during the first cap tube change, or they, rarely, genuinely have a problem case. If your techs are replacing cap tubes over and over then something is wrong and it is likely not the equipment.

    As I said before...Always remember that for every unit in which we are replacing a cap tube there could be 20, 30, even 50 more identical machines that run for 20 years with no invasive service.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,460
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahWes View Post
    He means that, in most cases, a replaced cap tube will continue to work until the equipment is retired.

    I think it is very unusual to replace a cap tube twice.

    I have never replaced a cap tube twice. Part or the reason is that after the expense of doing it, equipment owners tend to clean the condensers more, the other half of the reason is that I always use a sporlan solid core dryer.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tenn
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapperhead View Post
    Is this a stand up reach in ? I just replaced drier and compressor and cut out 4 inches off cap tubes , then low was 20 high 250 holding at 0 , tech said them numbers,were perfect.

    Hot compressor, both sides low, squirt did not change it , I bet you need a drier at minimum

    On mine I cut drier open , found dessicant had busted out thru screen and was restricting outlet.
    That's one of those things where I hate to guess what others know. It's like second nature for me to quick check if anything on the high side appears cold. A restriction outlet side of drier will cause a pressure drop down side of drier. It seems a bit condesending for me to tell fellow techs to check obvious things that they probably already checked. It's like a tech asking about a no power at compressor question and I respond with, "Is the cord plugged in?". It had to have been the first thing he checked. Am I wrong about starting my responses at a point beyond where a fellow tech should have alreay checked?

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