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  1. #1

    Which Hooneywell Best for XR-16/TAM7: VisionPro IAQ or Profile IAQ

    HI:
    I am having installed next week:

    HP: XR16: 2 ton; 2-Stage Heat/2-Stage Cool: 4TWR6024A
    AH: TAM7: 2.5 Ton; Var Speed, 2-stage 5+5 kw strip: *AM7A0B30H21
    ARHI: 5456738
    Location: North Atlanta, GA
    Stat: Honeywell VisionPro IAQ V.2 with EIM and Outdoor Sensor: YTH9421C1010
    Remote Indoor Temp Sensor: Honeywell

    Want:
    a) if Thermo calls for COOL and Dehumidification From Thermo is Calling for Dehumdify, then air handler speed lower. Existing alternative is to use Honeywell Humidstat that Closes on Rise. Do not want to run A/C below SetPoint to lower humidity.
    B) Remote Indor and therm. air temp is AVERAGED.
    C) Adaptive Intelligent Recovery or similar.
    c) H Stages: Treat H Stage 1 as low-level HP, going to high-level only if temp not increasing fast enough (i.e., not automatically to full after 7-8 minutes)
    Treat H Stage 3 as adding Stage 1 Strips only if Outside Temp below 37+/-
    Treat H Stage 4 as adding Extra 5kw strips.
    d) Cooling: Thermo controlled by outside/inside differential. That may be only by using Profile IAQ

    QUESTIONS:
    a. Can VisionPro IAQ Ver 2 and EIM handle this?
    b. Do I need the Profile IAQ with EIM to get this?
    C. If the XR16 specifies 3/8 -5/8 tubeset, and I have 3/8-3/4, will there be performance loss (e.g., lower capacity, lower SEER or lower EER)?
    D. Does the XR16 have temp-dependent defrost, or timed defrost? If only timed, is there an option for electronic?

    THANKS!

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    On the IAQ you still set up the allowed temperature droop in cooling when dehumidifying if you want that capability -- there is no way around it. This can be set as low as 1 deg, but there is going to be some overcooling if you want dehumidfication, even with reduced blower speed (yes the IAQ can be set up to do this). But certainly dropping the blower speed will be more effective than simple overcooling, and you'll be more comfortable as the system will leverage more of its latent capacity that way.

    I really like the IAQ thermostat, so that's what I would get installed next week. With that said I don't know about the Profile IAQ, so I can't guide you there (did you mean Prestige?) You can lock out the heat strips with the outdoor sensor like you wish. I would replace the lineset if at all possible (some situations make it very difficult). On low stage, the smaller suction line is really going to be better for oil return on low stage. Trane calls for 3/4" suction on their 20i the 3-5 ton range. But I'm willing to bet Trane approves a 3/4" suction on a 2 ton XR16 -- I just don't have any data in front of me to confirm it and tell you anything more specific.

    All Tranes heat pumps use demand defrost.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    I'm assuming you mean Prestige IAQ rather than Profile IAQ.

    Either one will do dehumidification, by lowering the blower speed, with the equipment you listed.
    Dehumidification by reducing the blower speed kicks in if the humidity is 1% or more over the set point, overcooling to dehumidify doesn't kick in unless it is >5% over.
    I need to look at the instructions for the Prestige, and the newer version of the Vision Pro IAQ, but the older version of the VP IAQ didn't overcool to dehumidify if it was set up to dehumidify using a whole house dehumidifier, which is the option that was used to reduce the blower speed.

    Both will do temperature averaging between the thermostat and a remote sensor(s). The Prestige IAQ can use wireless sensors indoor and outdoor temperature sensors, the Vision Pro IAQ requires wired sensors.

    Both have adaptive intelligent recovery.

    Both use P+I control algorithms for control of stages, and will "learn" how to stage the equipment to maintain the set point. They won't automatically stage up just because a certain amount of time has elapsed. The Prestige has more options for adjusting the staging than the Vision Pro.

    Both allow you to lock out the electric heat above a selectable outdoor temperature.

    I'm not sure on the inside/outside differential thing, I'll have to look into that.

    As for the line size, 3/4 is acceptable, but 5/8 would be ideal for best system reliability.

    AS/Trane heat pumps use demand defrost, so they only defrost when they actually need it.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #4
    Yes, I meant Prestige. I am hoping some folks will be familiary with the IAQ Version 2 and if that changes the changes between VIsionPro and Prestige.

    Also seems that the Lineset size differential in the large pipe (3/4 vs. 5/8) will make a difference in longevity.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Virginia
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    have you looked at the tam8 with the xl950 thermostat
    We really need change now

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
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    I would ask your installer about the Trane 950 t-stat. While the t-stats you are looking at our good. I think the 950 t-stat would be a great match with the system selected.

    If the 950 t-stat is choosen your installer would need the t-stat and replay panel to install to make it work propely with your system selection. This t-stat offers many diffrent options for selection to help maximum the system performance plus you would have access via your smart phone, pad etc...

    The 3/4 and 3/8 line set size should be fine for that system. How long is your line set? Defrost on Trane's are demand so it only goes into defrost when needed instead of timing the defrost like some other systems.

  7. #7
    Trane 950/Honeywell Prestige seem to be more than I need given that the VisionPro IAW with EIM seems to provide controls for what I want, without spending for internet access, nice (though smaller) screen, etc. See Beiser response above. Unless the Prestige v.2 with EIM will provide a lot better staging, or much better dehumidification, doesn't seem worth it. I do not use a smart phone (proudly, I add).

    Further, going to communicating units is too expensive for any benefit I can see (and use). It does seem that whomever programs the EIM/VisionPro needs to know which of the hundreds of settings to program. for the hardware combinations. Part of my posting here is to get an idea of what functions I should ask to be programmed.

    RE: lineset runs approx 19 lateral, 18 up, then 5 lateral, then 4 down (imagine it going into basement from outside, into a chase up to attic, over and around unit to loop around to connections).

    A new 5/8 50' coil is $$$ at HD, and could be run with relatively low effort. However, is it worth it or $$$ of labor?

    Another question: just how clean does the lineset have to be coming from R-22 use to R-410 use? Is there one particular method to use, or are the results about the same--or are some likely to cause damage?

    Also, from what I have seen, the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ v.2 with EIM can control 2 stage cool. Can it/should it take over the Condenser controls for Staging Cool 1/2, or can the XR16 control board even be controlled that way?

    THANKS.


    Pricing isn't allowed
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 02-17-2013 at 03:02 PM.

  8. #8
    One question that may separate Prestige from VisionPro IAQ (both with EIM): can either use the Outside/Inside ternp differential to determine which State to start the Condenser in? I know that the stats have staging based on some other factors. If Prestige CAN and VisionPro cannot (or, if there is just no need for this), then I still have no reason to pay so much extra to use Prestige.

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    have you looked at the tam8 with the xl950 thermostat
    You can't use a TAM8 with an XR16 heat pump.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  10. #10
    Yes, that would be a little wasteful for one communicating and one note. Okay, to clarify what is still left: Based on above,
    1. Should I downsize the 3/4" tube to 5/8--does the slight difference affect efficiency or longevity? Guess I shouldn't show ANY
    2. Does VisionPro IAW through EIM control the XR16 COOLING Staging, or is that left to the XR16 control board (which I presume is the default way)
    3. What works best to purge lineset of R-22 oil. R-11, Nitrogen, something else? Does it matter so long as they do it?

    THANKS!

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    You can't use a TAM8 with an XR16 heat pump.
    does not the compressor module work on 2 speed heat pumps ?
    We really need change now

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Location
    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbroberts38 View Post
    Yes, that would be a little wasteful for one communicating and one note. Okay, to clarify what is still left: Based on above,
    1. Should I downsize the 3/4" tube to 5/8--does the slight difference affect efficiency or longevity? Guess I shouldn't show ANY
    2. Does VisionPro IAW through EIM control the XR16 COOLING Staging, or is that left to the XR16 control board (which I presume is the default way)
    3. What works best to purge lineset of R-22 oil. R-11, Nitrogen, something else? Does it matter so long as they do it?

    THANKS!
    the contractor can run the Copper size through Trane piping chart and determin if it will work,although i think its best to run new if possible
    We really need change now

  13. #13
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    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    does not the compressor module work on 2 speed heat pumps ?
    I completely forgot that they came out with that module for running a non communicating outdoor unit.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

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