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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Evergreen Park (Chicago)
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    20

    Cat IV Wall Termination

    I'm a home inspector and have come across this and I don't like it.
    American Standard model # AL C1B060A9361AE, Yr. 2012

    Cat IV, 60K, installed as a non-direct vent. I am looking for some real references as to why this setup is no good. I cannot find anything specific in the code books and I have yet to find the manufacturers installation instructions on this model. There are no nearby doors or windows to consider.

    The vents are coming out a wall just above the deck so they cut a hole in the floor of the deck and built a box around it above.Name:  151deck box.JPG
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Size:  60.9 KBName:  under deck.JPG
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    Right now, I have recommended improvements in this termination on the grounds that the corrosive effects of the condensate in this confined space are going to eventually destroy everything that comes in contact with it, and in very cold weather there's going to be some serious frost problems.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Thread relocated to "Tech to Tech"

    Not sure about the codes there, but here that would never pass.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Evergreen Park (Chicago)
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    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthington View Post
    Thread relocated to "Tech to Tech"

    Not sure about the codes there, but here that would never pass.
    Besides corrosion issues, what references can you cite that would not allow this to pass? Thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    Besides corrosion issues, what references can you cite that would not allow this to pass? Thanks.
    You may find your answer in the National Fuel Gas Code book. Look under venting.

    This is not for an American Standard unit but is for a 90+ gas furnace. Check page 23, letter "M".
    http://www.rheem.com/documents/rgrm-...n-instructions

    Edit: are both pipes pictured exhaust pipes? If so what is the other appliance?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,157
    Hrmm.
    You might have trouble finding an actual code that will condemn that kind of stupidity.
    I know our code says the deck must be open on 2 sides for an under-deck termination.
    Clearly there aren't 2 open sides there.
    If you open the install manual for that furnace, the pictures of possible terminations clearly show an open area around the pipes.

    Or you could call trane/American standard. Maybe they'll void warranty if its not fixed!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,157
    I forgot to add, I'm sure the manual also states those screens in the pipe are a no-go

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    Besides corrosion issues, what references can you cite that would not allow this to pass? Thanks.
    As said we follow National Fuel Gas and our own "Local" codes WSSC. Our local codes are more stringent then National Fuel Gas, your local codes I am unaware of, but I would be surprised "if" they allowed this or the manufacture which often trumps all.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Evergreen Park (Chicago)
    Posts
    20
    An American Standard tech sent me the pdf. for what he thought was the correct installation instructions. I guess I had the model # wrong. The instructions are vague.

    The Rheem pdf from Mason is far clearer than the A.S. on this subject.

    5. 6 feet from an inside corner formed by two exterior walls – 10 feet is the recommended distance.

    1. Do not terminate under any kind of patio or deck.

    The other vent exiting is to a water heater.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    An American Standard tech sent me the pdf. for what he thought was the correct installation instructions. I guess I had the model # wrong. The instructions are vague.

    The Rheem pdf from Mason is far clearer than the A.S. on this subject.

    5. 6 feet from an inside corner formed by two exterior walls – 10 feet is the recommended distance.

    1. Do not terminate under any kind of patio or deck.

    The other vent exiting is to a water heater.
    Well, there you go.
    Now what?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    north georiga
    Posts
    652
    around here they make us put in the screens because of squirrels getting into the inducer and then they die in there,,,,very icky
    Quote Originally Posted by syndicated View Post
    I forgot to add, I'm sure the manual also states those screens in the pipe are a no-go

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    526
    Quote Originally Posted by davidj001 View Post
    around here they make us put in the screens because of squirrels getting into the inducer and then they die in there,,,,very icky
    Condensate will form in drops on the screen and freeze if it gets below freezing in your climate.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

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