Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,840

    from wood to <lp>gas

    I want to change from wood burning to an lp ventless gas insert- call in a pro? and it can be done-right
    It is what it is unless I say differently !!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,050
    You mean "lung vented" ;-)

    Ok, first you need a Level II inspection by someone qualified and familiar with NFPA 211 and the building codes. Next, you need to measure the room and any rooms attached without doors to calculate the maximum size VF burner input that space can handle. Then you have to look at the code requirements for construction, makeup air and regional climatic zone to see if VF is even allowed. Note that most VF burners will require an ugly 4" canopy/ hood be installed at the lintel to project heat out away from the face of the fireplace to protect a combustible mantel. These things make the breast of the fireplace incredibly hot so this area really needs to be intact and well sealed.

    Once you have chosen and installed your logset, it will really stink especially during the initial burn off. After about 12-18hrs. it should stink less----but it will still stink. Note that certain aerosols can form funny smelling compounds so it will likely always have a funny odor even when properly operating and burning "cleanly" within IAQ and ANSI guidelines. BTW, ANSI allows 200ppm of CO emission from a VF appliance. That's air free, which is kinda' hard to do on a VF but that means an 'as read' reading that equates with a 200af will be a lot lower.

    Make sure the LP second stage regulator is as close to the logset as possible and set so it delivers the min. inlet pressure under full load. See NFPA 58.

    By the way, did I say it will stink?

    It must be installed EXACTLY to the installation instructions or else you could get CO and nasty aldehydes and soot. IT must be maintained meaning you cannot let it accumulate more pet hair than the cat as most do I find. The fireplace will need to be swept one last time so soot and creosote don't fall down into the burner. If you ever do any remodeling in that room, disconnect and remove the logs. Dust can get into the burner and ruin them.

    So, get yourself a low level CO monitor, make sure your life insurance is paid up, crack a window on the upwind side of the house and fire away--no more than about 4 hrs. at any one time. When the smell gets too bad or someone starts coughing or having an asthma attack you might want to shut it off.

    Enjoy!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    198
    lol, my thoughts exactly hearthman

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Caledonia WI
    Posts
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    You mean "lung vented" ;-)

    Ok, first you need a Level II inspection by someone qualified and familiar with NFPA 211 and the building codes. Next, you need to measure the room and any rooms attached without doors to calculate the maximum size VF burner input that space can handle. Then you have to look at the code requirements for construction, makeup air and regional climatic zone to see if VF is even allowed. Note that most VF burners will require an ugly 4" canopy/ hood be installed at the lintel to project heat out away from the face of the fireplace to protect a combustible mantel. These things make the breast of the fireplace incredibly hot so this area really needs to be intact and well sealed.

    Once you have chosen and installed your logset, it will really stink especially during the initial burn off. After about 12-18hrs. it should stink less----but it will still stink. Note that certain aerosols can form funny smelling compounds so it will likely always have a funny odor even when properly operating and burning "cleanly" within IAQ and ANSI guidelines. BTW, ANSI allows 200ppm of CO emission from a VF appliance. That's air free, which is kinda' hard to do on a VF but that means an 'as read' reading that equates with a 200af will be a lot lower.

    Make sure the LP second stage regulator is as close to the logset as possible and set so it delivers the min. inlet pressure under full load. See NFPA 58.

    By the way, did I say it will stink?

    It must be installed EXACTLY to the installation instructions or else you could get CO and nasty aldehydes and soot. IT must be maintained meaning you cannot let it accumulate more pet hair than the cat as most do I find. The fireplace will need to be swept one last time so soot and creosote don't fall down into the burner. If you ever do any remodeling in that room, disconnect and remove the logs. Dust can get into the burner and ruin them.

    So, get yourself a low level CO monitor, make sure your life insurance is paid up, crack a window on the upwind side of the house and fire away--no more than about 4 hrs. at any one time. When the smell gets too bad or someone starts coughing or having an asthma attack you might want to shut it off.

    Enjoy!
    All this and you forgot to extol the one often missed virtue of CO, that being the wonderfully calming effect it has on those subjected to it. Just think of the savings on psych medications that could be realized with this simple "home improvement".
    Nothing is magic, it works or doesn't work for a reason.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,840
    Quote Originally Posted by billg View Post
    All this and you forgot to extol the one often missed virtue of CO, that being the wonderfully calming effect it has on those subjected to it. Just think of the savings on psych medications that could be realized with this simple "home improvement".
    gezzzzzzzzzz thanks guys for the replies, now I should just keep a bunch of fire wood around
    It is what it is unless I say differently !!!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    390
    What is it that causes the odors? Does it come from the LP gas or from the ceramic fiber logs?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,050
    Sorry for the buzzkill Papa_jo ;-)

    Rob, there are several causes of odors with VF.

    Even with ceramic logs you get odors as I said when certain aerosols are cooked by the flame and combining to form all sorts of weird compounds, not to mention paraldehyde and acetaldehye.

    Sure, some of the trace stuff in LPG may also form funny smelling compounds when burned. Speaking of which, you have an odorant, often a mercaptan such as ethyl or methly mercaptan ,which are sulfur based compounds. This stuff is not in high concentration but you only need a few parts per BILLION to sniff it.

    With ceramic fiber logs, you have two things: the resin binder that glues the filaments together cooking off and any airborne aerosols that got absorbed by the sponge-like logs. Sometimes, you can never cook the stink out of a fiber log.

    Ceramic logs seem cleaner but keep in mind they, too have a binder, such as sodium silicate which usually does not have an odor attribute but some other binders and modifiers such as acrylics, phenols and starches do.

    If there is even a trace of wood creosote left in the firebox, it, too will begin to break down and can add to the odorama.

    HTH

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,840
    didn't mean to start anything here.. I was going to change over to a dual fuel system, since our neighbor hood does not have gas, lp is my only chose left. was looking into a tankless water heater and thought what the hell....... gas logs, put a manifold in for later use. maybe gas stove, dyer, hook up to grill...........
    It is what it is unless I say differently !!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Marion, IN
    Posts
    81
    The wood burning fireplace has a much better ambiance too! My wife would not like an LP conversion.... Which is a good thing, because I love to cut firewood!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickochet View Post
    The wood burning fireplace has a much better ambiance too! My wife would not like an LP conversion.... Which is a good thing, because I love to cut firewood!
    I put one in for a lady one time and the first thing she says is "wow that looks fake I don't think I like that". Then she starts giving me disgusted looks. To top it off the control is bad right out of the box. After it was all said and done she loved it, when they went to natural they wanted a new one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event