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  1. #183
    I'll give no answers to you scrogdog.
    A 54 year old man,who has only held one gun in his life that was unloaded.

    Went to the local gun and knive show yesterday,looking for specific items.

    In a showcase,was a Benjamin 22 HC exactly like the one I had as a kid,to knock down rabbits with one shot.
    Put meat on the table at age 9,dutch oven,brazed rabbit,carrots,potatoes and dumplings.

    Shared the recipe with the counter guys and had 10 people standing behind me wanting that recipe.
    FEN

  2. #184
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    124
    I'll get poo-pooed for this but it is an accurate analogy.

    The speed limit for most highways is 70 mph. We have laws and enforcement to protect citizens who use these roads.
    A Toyota Prius is a suitable choice for transportation for Most citizens. Its safe, fuel effecient, low pollution ect, ect...

    Some citizens choose to own a big truck...some actually need them and some dont...its their perogative.

    Some citizens own a Corvette, Ferrari, Lamborgini ect...

    Here is scrogdogs logic: the speed limit is 70 mph, TELL ME, why do you need 450hp? Why do you NEED to travel at speeds of over 100 mph, it's dangerous and puts the lives of others at risk. I've never owned a car that can go that fast and I have never been in a car wreck....blah blah blah...It doesnt make sense and you have'nt convinced me why you need a 450 hp car, so we're going to take them away for the general good of all citizens and anyone who owns those cars are selfish NHRA robots.

    Nonsense, brainwashed, Liberal, treehugging, feel gooder...Never can or ever will see because he gets emotionalized by what the media tells him. Probably likes to watch Oprah, Dr. Phill and Piers Morgan....SMH

    What's ironic....more people have died in speed related deaths than "assault weapons"
    A smooth sea has never made a worthy mariner
    English proverb

  3. #185
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,490
    I would suggest that "common use" clause says that common citizens can own AR-15 type weapons.

    In Printz v United States The SCOTUS said

    In Miller, we determined that the Second Amendment did not guarantee a citizen's right to possess a sawed off shotgun because that weapon had not been shown to be "ordinary military equipment" that could "contribute to the common defense."
    The AR-15 being a direct descendant of the military version of the M-16 or M-4 carbine is the ordinary military equipment of the United States military and can "contribute to the common defense."

    Therefore, no restriction of the AR-15 should be instituted against private ownership as it is Ordinary military equipment.
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  4. #186
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
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    6,294
    After all the rhetoric what remains is the core issue: Those that want to take away guns to suite their conscience or desire for supporting totalitatian regimes vs. the rule of logic and law that says you cannot and should not restrict or confiscate guns but rather enable their legal ownership then apply strict penalties for misapplication, just as with anything else in society. We are not serious about stopping DUIs because the penalties are too weak and the recidivism rates are high. We are not serious about stopping "repeat offenders" because we empower liberal judges who have created recidivism. We focus on controlling instruments misused to harm others rather than controlling the people intent on committing the harm because of the Progressive mindset and the ACLU, which has probably done more to destroy this country from within that any other non-governmental institution.

    I ask Scroggydoggy and all you who support some form of gun control to offer this before you open you mouth again with one breath about controlling guns: What have you done to identify the people who are most likely to commit violence against their fellow man? What have you done to facilitate the dissemination of this information? What mechanisms do you have in place to control these people who represent a direct threat to the public? What mechanisms do you have in place so that if one should slip through the cracks and act violently against the public, that they will be met with a deterrent or superior firepower such that they do not prevail in their scheme? What deterrents do you have in place so that any one, whether a kid in the street or a nut in his lair plotting mayhem will think twice about acting violently against the public because such cowards rarely will charge into the muzzles of guns?

    You have not limited or controlled vehicles of any kind or seating capacity yet historically, their abuse while DUI has accounted for death tolls consistent with wars. Why do you want to apply this faulty logic to the preservation of life and liberty? Do you realize that bans on sodas, salt and trans fats can be reversed but gun control can and never will be reversed except through extreme bloodshed? This is not the place for social experimentation or to placate your personal fears and guilt about society and what you have done to contribute to its erosion and collapse. This is the time to stand firm against totalitarian fascists who seek to usurp power for the purposes of enslaving everyone for their benefit and your subjugation ONLY. This debate doesn't have one darn thing to do with saving the lives of kids or reducing mass shootings. Those are the tools of the fascists to hide their true agenda as I have laid out. So please spare us all the platitudes about how magazine capacity has anything at all to do with death tolls and everything to do with fascism. These weasels have been in hiding ever since McCarthy shone a light at them. They were successful at vilifying him when in fact, he was correct. We have been infiltrated by communists and their cousins the Progressives who share a common dream of a liberal fascist state of totalitarian control, otherwise known as slavery.

  5. #187
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    8,237
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    I would suggest that "common use" clause says that common citizens can own AR-15 type weapons.

    In Printz v United States The SCOTUS said



    The AR-15 being a direct descendant of the military version of the M-16 or M-4 carbine is the ordinary military equipment of the United States military and can "contribute to the common defense."

    Therefore, no restriction of the AR-15 should be instituted against private ownership as it is Ordinary military equipment.


    "In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

    Miller is pretty worthless to argue over from either side.... they left some big holes in the argument that were supposed to be answered but never were because miller died and the other guy made a plea deal with the government.

    With all the information available today...about military usage of sawed off etc... and with the fact that we have better educated lawyers today due to higher technology aiding research...... the case could probably be won today.

    Just got to get some doofus arrested with a sawed off and get him to ride the case to the supreme court.

    Only stumbling block I could see coming up would be the well regulated militia part.


    Id love to have an Ithaca stakeout that I could legally carry to walmart. I know you can legally own them...with the tax stamp and all... but Im not sure if you can legally carry them..... dont think you can.... unless you are at the gun range or something.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  6. #188
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    A better question to ask Americans is "For what reason should guns, or fast cars for that matter, be taken away from us?" The very thing that makes Americans different than other folks in the world is our having the freedom to own what want and to do what we want as long as it does not adversely affect others. Just owning guns or fast cars does not in the least affect anyone else.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #189
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    124
    .....the sound of crickets.....an owl in the distant trees.......the wind picks up.......good night......
    A smooth sea has never made a worthy mariner
    English proverb

  8. #190
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
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    12,945
    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    "In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

    Miller is pretty worthless to argue over from either side.... they left some big holes in the argument that were supposed to be answered but never were because miller died and the other guy made a plea deal with the government.

    With all the information available today...about military usage of sawed off etc... and with the fact that we have better educated lawyers today due to higher technology aiding research...... the case could probably be won today.

    Just got to get some doofus arrested with a sawed off and get him to ride the case to the supreme court.

    Only stumbling block I could see coming up would be the well regulated militia part.


    Id love to have an Ithaca stakeout that I could legally carry to walmart. I know you can legally own them...with the tax stamp and all... but Im not sure if you can legally carry them..... dont think you can.... unless you are at the gun range or something.
    Please don't worry your llittle head about it corny just let us law abiding citizens own the weapon of our choice without any interference or concern from those who want to control us and support big government which you seem to do. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  9. #191
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
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    14,490
    In Miller v U.S. the court admitted they only heard one side of the story, the governments side.

    Had the defense put up even a small amount of defense, they could cite that during WWI and WWII the Army ordered and in fact did use sawed off shotguns in CQC, trench warfare and house clearing operations. The fact is Millers defense did not bring this up, so the SCOTUS didn't consider it.

    Therefore the Sawed off shotgun was not considered, by the SCOTUS, as "common use military equipment"

    In fact the military still uses the 12ga in Iraq and Afghanistan as a "breaching" tool and for house clearing operations.
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  10. #192
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Orange County N.Y.
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    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Actually no. I am still struggling, after many pages now, to understand how an assault rifle makes your average joe American safer in his home.
    And in all likelyhood you will continue not understanding. I think your brain is just wired differently than the others here that you are argueing with.

    My answer to your question is that I want to be able to eviscerate the son of a gun/s that dares to enter my home, threatens my family, or friends and neighbors. Wether it takes one shot or 20 it doesn't matter, I want the ability to have as many rounds to fire off until there is no more threat.

    ...Ron
    Roof Rat

  11. #193
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    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Stick to golf, you're more knowledgeable about the subject.
    Not to worry. I'm well versed in both subjects.

    Speaking of golf, lovely day Sunday for golf. A little breezy but temps up in the 70s.

    Putter was on fire for once, long game mighty, short game adequate and the Margaritas cold. All in all a choice day ib the Great State,

  12. #194
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    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    Duplicate post deleted.

  13. #195
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helioson View Post
    Nonsense, brainwashed, Liberal, treehugging, feel gooder...Never can or ever will see because he gets emotionalized by what the media tells him. Probably likes to watch Oprah, Dr. Phill and Piers Morgan....SMH
    Your appalling lack of any sense of perception about scrogdog might be explained by your newbie status here but your ranting is pure lockstep Limbaugh with a healthy dose of foaming LaPierre.

    What's ironic....more people have died in speed related deaths than "assault weapons"
    When you hear of a heavy foot being used in a mass-shooting let us know. we would like to get pictures.

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