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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Malden Mass
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    288

    7/8 lineset on a 5 ton system

    I have seen at least 2 AC 5 ton R-410 systems run with 7/8 lineset instead of 1 and 1/8".
    I didn't take any readings, but the owners said they are running fine.
    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
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    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by jdere View Post
    I have seen at least 2 AC 5 ton R-410 systems run with 7/8 lineset instead of 1 and 1/8".
    I didn't take any readings, but the owners said they are running fine.
    What do you guys think?
    They are most likely fine. Not every 5 ton calls for an 1 1/8 line set, sometimes it's actually better to keep up your velocity.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,168
    Tricky subject...
    Length of lineset and location of coil and AC unit (over/under and how much)... Different manufacturers say different things... And if it is a 2 stage... most will go with 7/8.

    Usually running a too small SL will reduce efficiency by 3-4-5%... not a huge amount if re-running the lineset was difficult.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,176
    Many are happy with that, especially 410.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Even with fairly long lines, 50-70', with a few fittings, AS/Trane's piping software will almost always spit out 7/8" as the recommended SL size for a 5 ton R-410 AC or heat pump system.
    For shorter line set applications, it will even recommend, a 3/4" SL, or at least list it as an approved alternative.

    For the ARI ratings manufacturers will run short, larger diameter, suction lines to maximize the efficiency ratings, but the size that yields the most reliable system is generally smaller.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Malden Mass
    Posts
    288
    Thanks for all the replies!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,289
    I've seen FAR more problems with 5 tons systems being attached to less than 2,000 CFM worth of ductwork...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sacramento,ca
    Posts
    196
    I have seen multiple compressor failures from companies putting 1 1/8 on current systems. If you look in most install manuals on current 14 plus seer systems they specifically warn you about oversizing lines because it will starve the compressor of oil especially on long runs.

    Also according to Rheem install manuals it is not efficiency you loose with oversized or undersized lines its capacity. for instance i put a 3 ton 15 seer on a home that had a 5/8 suction 3/8 liquid at 70 ft long and there was no way of changing it and the rheem manual stated that i would only loose 3% of capacity so instead of 36kbtu i would only get 35kbtu. Not worth tearing the home apart.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettservices View Post
    Also according to Rheem install manuals it is not efficiency you loose with oversized or undersized lines its capacity.
    The small capacity loss directly causes a small loss of efficiency.
    Lower btuh per watt = lower efficiency.

    I'd rather have a more reliable system, that is 1-3% less efficient though.

    Not worth tearing the home apart.
    I absolutely agree.
    In most cases, the potential increase in efficiency from changing to the ideal refrigerant line size won't cover the cost of replacing it within the life span of the system, or even the next system.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,289
    If you really want to help lower power bills for the homeowner install a 2.5 ton instead of the 3 ton. If it can't keep up fix the leaks/solar gain in the house. Fudging the numbers on manual J calculations to get about 500sqft per ton that has been used since the 60's has got to stop. It's rare that a well designed house with a properly installed HVAC and duct system should need more than 750sft per ton.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sacramento,ca
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    If you really want to help lower power bills for the homeowner install a 2.5 ton instead of the 3 ton. If it can't keep up fix the leaks/solar gain in the house. Fudging the numbers on manual J calculations to get about 500sqft per ton that has been used since the 60's has got to stop. It's rare that a well designed house with a properly installed HVAC and duct system should need more than 750sft per ton.
    I agree however there are thousands of homes in our area that were built without dual pane windows, wall or floor insulation and very little insulation in the attic. The majority of homewners will not spend the money to fix those issues so we have to install slightly larger systems to compensate.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettservices View Post
    I agree however there are thousands of homes in our area that were built without dual pane windows, wall or floor insulation and very little insulation in the attic. The majority of homewners will not spend the money to fix those issues so we have to install slightly larger systems to compensate.
    Agree, older homes with single pane windows/leaks/poor insulation typically need more cooling per sqft. My gripe is newer homes being sized the same ton per sqft as older homes.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,432
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    The small capacity loss directly causes a small loss of efficiency.
    Lower btuh per watt = lower efficiency.

    I'd rather have a more reliable system, that is 1-3% less efficient though.
    Its actually more complicated than that. When you reduce capacity, you reduce the work being done by the compressor, which in turn reduces its amp draw. So even if the restricted line causes a 3% capacity reduction, efficiency reduction might only be 1% or even nothing.

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