ReplyThere would not be any mixing of the water, but I would recommend a sediment water filter. Those water regulative valves can clog up pretty easily.
Professional Member*
Can anyone answer this.
I have a customer with a large water cooled ice maker. It runs 24/7/365 and uses a lot of water to cool the process, let alone the lesser amount for the ice. The machine is indoors but the waste water goes outside. It is always running. When it was first installed years ago, the water was provided by a private well on the property. A few years ago, they had to change to municipal water. All water is now from the municipal water system. The well water is now considered to be water of a questionable source. It is totally and physically disconnected from the new water system. It is allowable to have "process water" for non potable use. Is it allowable to use process water on the cooling part of a water cooled condenser while the ice making part is potable water?
I just don't know.
It would seem that there could be no mixing of the two in the process.
Professional Member
There would not be any mixing of the water, but I would recommend a sediment water filter. Those water regulative valves can clog up pretty easily.
Professional Member
yes, you can use the well water for the condenser. Many larger buildings use cooling tower water for the ice machine condensers and you wouldn't dare make ice out of that.
just be aware you may have to occasionally descale the condenser if the water has a high mineral content.
Professional Member*
Yep. Stay up on your maint and filter and its a good idea.
Professional Member*
I use well water here, but our water is super soft and very little mineral content. City water is really expensive. Customer was pleasantly surprised at the drop in water usage. Went from 700+ gallons a 24 hour period to 80. Also, you can have a well drilled here for about a hundred bucks. Use a well point and go 12' you'll get 10-12 gallons of water per minute.
One way to outthink people is to make them think you think. They'll think you're not really thinking what you're trying to get them to think you think...........
Professional Member*
Thanks for the info. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Professional Member
Beware though, some municipalities forbid wells for any water, as it cuts into their "water monopoly", make sure to read the contract that was signed before tying into the city water
Professional Member*
That's not the problem. The municipality has a problem with something in their distribution system. They wouldn't be giving up their municipal use, just some parts because the well water is colder than the municipal water which is a considerable consideration.
Professional Member
I really don't think that the incoming temperature of the water is as big of a factor as you're making it.Originally Posted by icesailor
With a a typical condensing setpoint of 100 to 105 degrees F, unless your municipal water supply is in the 90s, I don't think that either water supply would cause an operating problem.
Professional Member*
The owner thinks it does because he keeps very careful records. Over the years, he had a few wells. The last well was over 155'. The static level is between 5' to 10'. The soil is sandy. The water mains are 4'. In the summer, the water gets warm from the municipal system because of the lack of depth. The water in this deep well stays in the low 50's always. Another large user of potential process water is a still. The owner has to keep records of water usage. He knows what his water usage was with the well. His water usage went up with the municipal water to condense the alcohol. The same with beer making.
The issue with the icemaker is the cost of the water. My concern was about regulations on cross connections. There shouldn't be any. But I figure you guys are way more up on it than some AHJ's who are self taught on misinformation.
That can be a avery bad thing
SDC/Educational/Membership Committee*
No cross-connections involved here.
Just check out your machine's service manual and it will state how they can be piped for tower water, separate from the potable water supply for making ice. That should satisfy any issues with an inspector.
Professional Member*
There are 3 water line connections on the machine. Condenser water in and out, this is a closed loop and has no direct contact with the ice water side of the system, which is the 3rd water line connection. You should have no issues. As long as you don't get any of those 3 mixed up
Professional Member*
I understand all of that as a very old and studied Master Plumber. However, I always have to give way to a AHJ person who "doesn't like to see it like that so I don't allow it. Even though the code specifically allows it.
There are some paranoid inspectors that if you would explain to them that the number one cause of deat in the world and the most dangerous event in the life of any life form is death. If that ever sunk in, ther would work to save us by declaring birth a health hazzard and needs to be regulated.
I pick my battles and know when not to start jousting at windmills.
Professional Member*
The way you put it in your first post, this machine is older and has been running for years. Why not just pipe cooling water from the well and let it run? How would an inspector even come to know about it?
Also, if the machine has been running for that long and the condenser hasn't been descaled, it is probably using nearly twice as much condenser water as it would if it was clean. It might be so scaled up that you won't even be able to clean it out completely.
Professional Member*
In my time and experience, I have never seen a water cooled ice machine that wasn't connected to the same potable water as the cooling water. In that case, it wouldn't make any difference except that the cold water potable water feed must be backflow protected from the cooling part because it is water used on an unknown source.
It was the well water which is considered of a questionable source and the potable municipal water source that was my question. Any ice maker has to be backflow protected.
As far as descaling, it probably needs to be done. A refrigeration person does that. Whether he dors it is beyond my pay grade.
Professional Member*
Nearly all of our water cooled machines, and there are a fair amount of them, are on loop water, not potable water.
Professional Member*
To be honest, I haven't seen any water cooled ice machines where I work because of the high cost of water. These are small machines.
This all started because it was my understanding that someone claiming to have authority told the owner that he was forbidden to use their well water for any type of process piping. The other process piping used for cooling, I don't feel the person had the legal right to deny the use. In the ice maker, I wasn't so sure even though I didn't think it coould be denied. Ask the experts.
I consider it "Geothermal Cooling". A totally green use. What could be better?
Professional Member*
What is "Loop Water"?
Professional Member*
Water supplied from the building's cooling tower. A lot of the larger buildings have tower water supplied for HVAC and refrigeration purposes.
Professional Member*
Oh, and they can also be placed on the chilled water loop. There are a lot of these in the larger buildings and some hotels around here.
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