MO99 Retro

[jlowe79]

I am about to undertake changing out a 50 ton semi herm compressor on an older Trane self contained, water cooled, DX system that had the compressor short to ground. This did create a massive burnout. I'm thinking of using a R-22 replacement such as MO-99 to go ahead and help customer with the current and future cost. Any experiences or advice in this matter would be appreciated.

[passintyme]

Go to Emerson's web site, they have a chart on existing refrigerents and retrofit refrigerents including oil and pt charts...

[duckman373]

Using a 22 replacement would be wise. I would suggest changing the oil to poe, flushing the system, and going with 407c. Not sure about Trane, but Copeland only allows M099 to be used with Discus comps.

[mpalmer821]

Carrier's factory service is advertising that they have a MO99 retrofit program commercial systems, i.e. chillers. I am actually looking for information on this as I have a customer with a 30GT with one circuit flat out of refrigerant & they are requesting a retrofit. The question I have is how the EXV controls will be affected by the blend's glide (if it even will be). There is a slight difference in saturation temp @ given pressure. The other question I have is how the reported 5% capacity drop will affect the superheat reading at the compressor's suction sensor. Does anyone have any information to offer? Carrier service is apparently wanting to keep this as a factory service only retrofit program.

[Dallas Duster]

You know there is no silver bullet on this issue capacity loss is going to happen. Maybe you should get with your local MO99 rep and see what they can do for you.
Since its an OTC .

Carrier's factory service is advertising that they have a MO99 retrofit program commercial systems, i.e. chillers. I am actually looking for information on this as I have a customer with a 30GT with one circuit flat out of refrigerant & they are requesting a retrofit. The question I have is how the EXV controls will be affected by the blend's glide (if it even will be). There is a slight difference in saturation temp @ given pressure. The other question I have is how the reported 5% capacity drop will affect the superheat reading at the compressor's suction sensor. Does anyone have any information to offer? Carrier service is apparently wanting to keep this as a factory service only retrofit program.

[valdelocc]

Andy Schoen wrote an unbiased article about MO99 retrofits on the RSES journal, The capacity drop is way more than what Dupont want us to believe, there are also flammability issues, I wouldn't recommend it to any of my customers.
Dupont is coming out with mickey mouse refrigerants like 1234yf, MO99 etc. trying to make money on new patents, the latest batch seems like a desperation move, poor product followed by a huge marketing campaign, even the car manufacturers are rejecting the 1234yf cause flammability issues. I bet Dupont has pretty good lobbyist in DC.

[Gibbo]

Curious as to why Carrier Service US would advise retrofiting a chiller over selling a new chiller it doesn't make sense as here in the UK Dupont drop ins are given a wide berth due to various problems using them.

[Dallas Duster]

Curious as to why Carrier Service US would advise retrofiting a chiller over selling a new chiller it doesn't make sense as here in the UK Dupont drop ins are given a wide berth due to various problems using them.

Just because.

[cavalieri85]

I used mo99 in a walk in beer cooler. The problems noted did not show up in the least. The cooler has been operating without even a hiccup for about 9 months. My company is debating the subject and is gonna rule soon corporate wide on what we will use in the future. My only advice would be to talk with your boss and find out what you want to use and stick with it. If you use 407c and the next guy mo99 and the next nu22 than you will end up with a million refigerants in your truck. Make a policy and stick with it. We may be going to mo99 due to the fact that the chain if stores with rack systems may have us retrofit to it so to keep a constant that's all we will use.

[sdt1104]

The global warming potential of MO99 is much worse than 407C. I am at government facility, and our environmental affairs department would not OK MO99 for that reason, we are using 407C. We have done quite a few retrofits of DX units with 407C with no adverse problems. Head pressures are lower, maybe better for compressors, with no noticeable loss in cooling. Copeland is shipping R22 compressor with POE in them, our supplier was able to find them and they are now stocking them. There are some good case sturies at both "Dupont" (MO99)and "National Refrigerants" (407C) web sites

[hvacdoctor]

ok its now 2017 I agree with this, Copeland is only compressor mfg that tested and approved R407C in there compressors so how is caryle or Trane York rips different? in process of retro some carrier 06e compressors so far so good with it.

[psehunter]

The global warming potential of MO99 is much worse than 407C. I am at government facility, and our environmental affairs department would not OK MO99 for that reason, we are using 407C. We have done quite a few retrofits of DX units with 407C with no adverse problems. Head pressures are lower, maybe better for compressors, with no noticeable loss in cooling. Copeland is shipping R22 compressor with POE in them, our supplier was able to find them and they are now stocking them. There are some good case sturies at both "Dupont" (MO99)and "National Refrigerants" (407C) web sites

My question about GWP is... If techs are recovering it and not blowing charges why would this be such a big deal? Just from the minute amounts vented while adding or removing your gauges?

[hvac wiz 79]

Andy Schoen wrote an unbiased article about MO99 retrofits on the RSES journal, The capacity drop is way more than what Dupont want us to believe, there are also flammability issues, I wouldn't recommend it to any of my customers.
Dupont is coming out with mickey mouse refrigerants like 1234yf, MO99 etc. trying to make money on new patents, the latest batch seems like a desperation move, poor product followed by a huge marketing campaign, even the car manufacturers are rejecting the 1234yf cause flammability issues. I bet Dupont has pretty good lobbyist in DC.

Do you have this article?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[All-Good]

MO99 is not a flammable product...

[timebuilder]

Page 2 of the MO99 retrofit guidelines from DuPont say different.

In the presence of oxygen (even the amount in atmospheric air) under pressure, when exposed to an ignition source, MO99 becomes a flammable refrigerant.

[psehunter]

Page 2 of the MO99 retrofit guidelines from DuPont say different.

In the presence of oxygen (even the amount in atmospheric air) under pressure, when exposed to an ignition source, MO99 becomes a flammable refrigerant.

Was just talking about this with a co worker today.... is that due to the Butane in the formula?

[timebuilder]

Was just talking about this with a co worker today.... is that due to the Butane in the formula?

All I can figure is that it has some form of a hydrocarbon molecule in it.

I am not familiar with the compound.

[psehunter]

All I can figure is that it has some form of a hydrocarbon molecule in it.

I am not familiar with the compound.

http://www.cantas.com/urunpdf/Dupont_MSDS_MO99.pdf

Says 1.7% Butane in the formula...

[timebuilder]

Page 2 of their brochure is actually page 4 of this PDF file.

http://www.hysave.com/wp-content/upl...efrigerant.pdf

[ga-hvac-tech]

A few years ago... attended a class by Copeland...
They said the ONLY R22 replacement juice they approve is 407C.

That is how I got started with 407C... after a few resi retrofits... figured out the following:
*Head is a little lower
*Cools better (DeltaT is a few D more)
*Add a little POE and Supco88 to mineral oil and it works just fine... note: There are some threads on this in PRO resi... suggest reading them.

So by default, I ended up using 407C... and it works!!!