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  1. #40
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  2. #41
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    I wasn't going to get involved in this thread because I'll probably pi$$ off all the drummers out there but none of those guys doing the fancy solos impress me at all. I'm not saying they're not great drummers only that I am not impressed by their music. To me the great drummer is the guy that doesn't get noticed & just makes the song sound good. Listening to a drum solo to me is like listening to a guy practicing his chops. On a rare occasion I hear a drum solo that really moves me but it's because of its uniqueness & not the flash that most people get impressed by. I always remember doing a two guitar duet where I played rhythm & my partner played lead on a song. A year later after we broke up & he was playing the same lead on the same song & his new partner was known as one the best guitar players in town. The guy could do things on the guitar that I've never heard done by even some of the greatest players ever. After his set my old partner sat down & asked me " Why doesn't my solo sound as good as it used to when we played together". I told him simply that his great guitar player partner was doing too much & detracting from the music he was playing. A good musician knows that it takes a lot of work to get the technique down but the key is to know how to use it.
    Gary
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    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  3. #42
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    How and when to use it...true enough. I believe when Clapton and Gadd, in the video above, ride a crescendo together it is a magical example of knowing how to use it. Same for the Gadd and Clarke video.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I wasn't going to get involved in this thread because I'll probably pi$$ off all the drummers out there but none of those guys doing the fancy solos impress me at all. I'm not saying they're not great drummers only that I am not impressed by their music. To me the great drummer is the guy that doesn't get noticed & just makes the song sound good. Listening to a drum solo to me is like listening to a guy practicing his chops. On a rare occasion I hear a drum solo that really moves me but it's because of its uniqueness & not the flash that most people get impressed by. I always remember doing a two guitar duet where I played rhythm & my partner played lead on a song. A year later after we broke up & he was playing the same lead on the same song & his new partner was known as one the best guitar players in town. The guy could do things on the guitar that I've never heard done by even some of the greatest players ever. After his set my old partner sat down & asked me " Why doesn't my solo sound as good as it used to when we played together". I told him simply that his great guitar player partner was doing too much & detracting from the music he was playing. A good musician knows that it takes a lot of work to get the technique down but the key is to know how to use it.
    No argument from me. A musician HAS to play as part of an ensemble. I play classic rock, jazz, dixieland, big band and most anything that comes along. There are some genres that I don't care for so I don't look for or take gigs of that sort. Listening is what enables any musician to fit in. The situations I find most troublesome are when somebody isn't listening to what the soloist or the band is doing. Most of the videos posted were of drum features so they weren't shown in an ensemble. Drummers have to fit in or they can ruin the vibe. Of course so can another musician who doesn't fit in.
    I'm not an AC/DC fan but Phil Ruud impresses me because what he plays fits so well that it supports what the other guys are doing. Too many young players want to force the latest thing they've learned into a place where it doesn't belong. This applies to any musician, not just drummers.
    Gary used the term "good musician." That encompasses knowing how to play your instrument but also knowing when to play as well as when not to play. I have played with a pianist who has played as a soloist with some really good orchestras but the conductor and the orchestra followed HIM. Trying to play with him in a small jazz group is almost impossible because he's not listening to the group (or even staying at one tempo.) His musical chops don't make him easy to play with.

    I would suggest Pat Metheny as an example of someone with great chops AND is also a great listener/accompanist. In particular his 80/81 recording. Jack DeJohnette and Charlie Haden are also on this recording as supportive players as well as soloists. Michael Brecker wails on this cut, too. I drove my family nuts playing this one in the car so much. Still dig it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKfXeND6klk

  5. #44
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    Keith Richards wrote in his book that Charlie Watts, who had a jazz background, is as an excellent example of a supportive, listening musician. But also has a peculiar technique of holding back on the fourth beat ever so slightly to give it a unique sound while still very much in time. Ever since I read that I try and listen for it but can never quite catch it. Perhaps that means he is doing it flawlessly?

  6. #45
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    Regarding "holding back" on a beat - I think of that as playing behind the beat. The 3 main ways are 1. on top of the beat (slightly pushing the tempo); 2. middle of the beat; 3. behind the beat. The retired drum prof at the local university with whom I used to study had a very relaxed feel, behind the beat. It was great for old R&B. However it didn't fit right when he played Latin music. Latin needs a forward movement, a propulsion, and the laid back feel didn't suit it. A lot depends on the music and the situation. What Charlie Watts does is just right for the Stones.
    I read in Keith Moon's biography that Mitch Mitchell tried out for The Who. Mitch was fantastic with Jimi Hendrix but I can't picture him playing with The Who.
    For drummers who may play in a variety of musical settings, they need to know how to sense which feel is right for the song and for the musicians with them. When a drummer and bass player lock in with each other its a great feeling. When they don't, the magic just doesn't happen.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdean1 View Post
    Regarding "holding back" on a beat - I think of that as playing behind the beat. The 3 main ways are 1. on top of the beat (slightly pushing the tempo); 2. middle of the beat; 3. behind the beat. The retired drum prof at the local university with whom I used to study had a very relaxed feel, behind the beat. It was great for old R&B. However it didn't fit right when he played Latin music. Latin needs a forward movement, a propulsion, and the laid back feel didn't suit it. A lot depends on the music and the situation. What Charlie Watts does is just right for the Stones.
    I read in Keith Moon's biography that Mitch Mitchell tried out for The Who. Mitch was fantastic with Jimi Hendrix but I can't picture him playing with The Who.
    For drummers who may play in a variety of musical settings, they need to know how to sense which feel is right for the song and for the musicians with them. When a drummer and bass player lock in with each other its a great feeling. When they don't, the magic just doesn't happen.
    Makes sense...interesting. My wife is threatening to pick her bass again after she is done with a major project at her firm. I'll be happy if we are anywhere in the general vicinity of the beat

  8. #47
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    Here's some brush work that is is very musical.
    The first is Steve Smith (Journey, Steps Ahead, Vital Information) and Jeff Hamilton (Oscar Peterson, Dianna Krall)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjxRl-aCWvQ

    Steve Gadd demonstrating why drummers need to know the song and melody.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtX62PAdzQ

  9. #48
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    That duet was really cool the way they worked together. I'm no drummer but I can hear the music they made.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  10. #49
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    No activity here for a while so I'll show my little Sonor kit that I use for jazz gigs. I love my Sabian 21" flat ride - a soft sound that has been described as "buttery."
    I had two gigs with my oldies band recently. Lots of fun. I enjoy doing the Ginger Baker beat on Sunshine of Your Love - the snare on 1 & 3 instead of 2 & 4. The band digs the authentic feel of it.
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  11. #50
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    Something to be said for a " ROCK SOLID " drummer. This guy is usually playing more glamorous pieces...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x04mDsN720

  12. #51
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    Love the Cream - Sunshine is one of the few songs I will never forget, lead and all. We looked up a list of top drummers for some reason or another the other night and Ginger was in the top ten.

    Cool kit - wish you lived closer.

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinhvac View Post
    Love the Cream - Sunshine is one of the few songs I will never forget, lead and all. We looked up a list of top drummers for some reason or another the other night and Ginger was in the top ten.

    Cool kit - wish you lived closer.
    Thanks, Hurt. There are videos of the Cream reunion on Youtube. The songs are all slower than the recorded versions but they still drive. The videos inspired me to try to get my band to play Toad.

    I took a lesson from the college drum prof two weeks ago. He suggested I play along with some jazz recordings and focus on just the ride cymbal to make all the beats a consistent volume. It's been a long time since I did a "play along" but it really helps me make my accompanyment smoother and more comfortable for the lead players. Practicing is almost as much fun as playing out.

    So - what do you guys practice? Is there a drum book you enjoy working in? Any patterns that you're digging currently?

    I'm working on 5's. rlrrl repeat. Start on beat 4 and you'll land on 1 after 5 beats.
    I also like Steve Smith's video lesson from a few years ago. I like his analysis and I can't help but admire his relaxed, smooth form.

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