New Trane S-Series CenTraVac

[Tech Rob]

That is good to know.

[Screwit]

It'd be great if they could come up with some new HFC low pressure refrigerant that could be used in this and the other centravacs going forward. Trane's argument against high pressure has always been "what's more environmentally friendly than a refrigerant that stays inside the chiller?" .

Rob, if you read through back through this thread it might give you some answers, I suspect the developmental HFO refrigerant DR2 is intended for the S-series

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....32#post9779832

[Tech Rob]

I remember that thread. I also read something about one called 1234YF. Looks like low-pressure is here to stay

[R123]

I can't remember the name of the new refrigerant but Trane has no plans on going high pressure. A high pressure machine can't touch the efficiency of a low pressure machine. It's the laws of physics.

[Tech Rob]

I can't remember the name of the new refrigerant but Trane has no plans on going high pressure. A high pressure machine can't touch the efficiency of a low pressure machine. It's the laws of physics.

Good point. Multi-stage, Direct drive, low pressure, semi-hermetic motor is the way to go. Also, what takes less energy; raising the pressure of a mass of vapor by 10# or by 70#?

[milkyway]

Multi-stage, Direct drive, low pressure, semi-hermetic motor

interesting thread

[Nuclrchiller]

I seem to recall hearing somewhere about it using R145, or something like that. I had a hard time finding any numbers on whatever refrigerant it was, but it is low pressure. Slightly higher that R11, in fact I think a condensing temperature of the low 90's put it barely above 15 psig, which has me wondering if any changes will be required for the condenser vessel rating and rupture disc. And also, FWIW, this chiller is being called "Series S", whereas the older one with ceramic bearings was the "S Series". Yeah I know it's nitpicking, but we know how important correct terminology can be.

[Nuclrchiller]

After viewing that thread Screwit referenced, I believe it is R145fa.

[Screwit]

NC, I beleive you mean HFC245fa. This is one of the candidates for the replacement if HCFC123 but has physical properties where head pressure is > than 15psig/103 kPa so a coded vessel would be required.

Commonly used in Organic Rankine Cycle systems IMHO I beleive being a HFC it may provide an interim HCFC replacement solution but longer term the low GWP of the HFO refrigerants will be the driver for selection of refrigerant low pressure chillers. Some further information attached

[motoguy128]

I can't remember the name of the new refrigerant but Trane has no plans on going high pressure. A high pressure machine can't touch the efficiency of a low pressure machine. It's the laws of physics.

The important question is, when the new refrigerant comes out will you have to change you screename?

[Screwit]

The important question is, when the new refrigerant comes out will you have to change you screename?

Phase out not unil 2020 in new equipment and 2030 for the service tail.

[Nuclrchiller]

NC, I beleive you mean HFC245fa. This is one of the candidates for the replacement if HCFC123 but has physical properties where head pressure is > than 15psig/103 kPa so a coded vessel would be required.

And I believe you're right about that, Screwit.

[Nuclrchiller]

Commonly used in Organic Rankine Cycle systems IMHO I beleive being a HFC it may provide an interim HCFC replacement solution but longer term the low GWP of the HFO refrigerants will be the driver for selection of refrigerant low pressure chillers. Some further information attached

Is that attachment (and you) talking about using R245fa liquid/vapor in a "steam" plant to generate electricity, as opposed to using water/steam? If so, I've never heard of such a thing. I've also never heard the term "Organic" Rankine Cycle.