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That is the chiller I saw in the factory. I wasn't supposed to notice it. I asked Dave and Tom what was up with the new bench grinder, they said they would have to kill me if they told me.
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Saw a chiller at the york factory in San Antonio in 2008. The compressor was on the chiller like a YK. but had an impeller on each end of the motor like a double ender. They wouldn't talk about it either. I was on a tour with other sales guys, it surprised them that a couple of us (ex techs) noticed it.Originally Posted by cperk
Nos operor non pensio volutabrum
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Looks interesting, tonnage range is limited like the York machine. Be real interested to see the numbers though...
Here is a link to Trane's earlier thoughts on maglev technology.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=x0MrD...ature%3Drelmfu
Listen to them talk about open drive motors and maglev technology!
Superheat, that must be REALLY hot.
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Well, this new machine looks cool and all, but do they have any long term solution as far as refrigerant goes? R-11 is still readily available 20 years after production ended. R-123 will probably be the same, but when the average life span of a water cooled centrifugal chiller is 20-30 years, who is going to buy a new machine that uses an obsolete refrigerant as we get closer to 2020? It'd be great if they could come up with some new HFC low pressure refrigerant that could be used in this and the other centravacs going forward. Trane's argument against high pressure has always been "what's more environmentally friendly than a refrigerant that stays inside the chiller?" If they are going to move to high pressure in the future, are they going to be able to do it with a design like this? How are they going to sell something that they've spent the last 20 years trash-talking?
Again, I think the S-Series will be awesome and will move the centravac line out of the stone age and make it more of a force in the retro/replacement market. However, I think these are all valid questions that have already been asked for a long time, and will continue to be until they offer up something really new.
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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Here's a research paper from Purdue University dating to 1996 that refers to an "HFC-LVP" and "HFOC-LVP" which are both "confidential and proprietary and experimental HFC low vapor pressure refrigerants" I wonder who was behind these? York was still in the low-pressure biz then.
A Performance Analysis of Low Pressure HFC Refrigerants in Vapor-Compression Refrigeration Compr.pdf
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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Trane has been working with DuPont on these machines and there is a new low pressure refrigerant in the works that will be a drop in replacement for R123. Trane is not going high pressure.
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That is good to know.
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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Rob, if you read through back through this thread it might give you some answers, I suspect the developmental HFO refrigerant DR2 is intended for the S-series
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....32#post9779832
Necessity is the mother of invention
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I remember that thread. I also read something about one called 1234YF. Looks like low-pressure is here to stay
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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I can't remember the name of the new refrigerant but Trane has no plans on going high pressure. A high pressure machine can't touch the efficiency of a low pressure machine. It's the laws of physics.
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Good point. Multi-stage, Direct drive, low pressure, semi-hermetic motor is the way to go. Also, what takes less energy; raising the pressure of a mass of vapor by 10# or by 70#?
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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Multi-stage, Direct drive, low pressure, semi-hermetic motor
interesting thread
no signatureblast'em man blast'em
!!!KILL THE TERRORIST!!!
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I seem to recall hearing somewhere about it using R145, or something like that. I had a hard time finding any numbers on whatever refrigerant it was, but it is low pressure. Slightly higher that R11, in fact I think a condensing temperature of the low 90's put it barely above 15 psig, which has me wondering if any changes will be required for the condenser vessel rating and rupture disc. And also, FWIW, this chiller is being called "Series S", whereas the older one with ceramic bearings was the "S Series". Yeah I know it's nitpicking, but we know how important correct terminology can be.
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After viewing that thread Screwit referenced, I believe it is R145fa.
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NC, I beleive you mean HFC245fa. This is one of the candidates for the replacement if HCFC123 but has physical properties where head pressure is > than 15psig/103 kPa so a coded vessel would be required.
Commonly used in Organic Rankine Cycle systems IMHO I beleive being a HFC it may provide an interim HCFC replacement solution but longer term the low GWP of the HFO refrigerants will be the driver for selection of refrigerant low pressure chillers. Some further information attached
Necessity is the mother of invention
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The important question is, when the new refrigerant comes out will you have to change you screename?
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Phase out not unil 2020 in new equipment and 2030 for the service tail.
Necessity is the mother of invention
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And I believe you're right about that, Screwit.
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Is that attachment (and you) talking about using R245fa liquid/vapor in a "steam" plant to generate electricity, as opposed to using water/steam? If so, I've never heard of such a thing. I've also never heard the term "Organic" Rankine Cycle.
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Attachment 362411 Hope this works. I have a hard time with this computer stuff ....
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