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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
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    Phila, PA
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    191
    there is no heat exchanger and there is no external equilizer.

    Trust me I've been doing this for a long time and I'm just as confused as you guys. I know i doesn't make much sense, just looking for Ideas, because this has me stumped as of right now. I'll be back there this weekend. First thing I'm doing is taking entire charge out and re-charging to make sure charge is proper (I did a lot of adding and pulling of charge when I was there the other night) then I'll take full set of readings.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Phila, PA
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    191
    Quote Originally Posted by ryan1088 View Post
    Assuming you have the bulb in the right place and insulated well? We do need some numbers to look at. Also does this have some type of head pressure control?
    Insulated and in proper location, no head pressure control, but condensor is in a basement. the basement does get a little chilly in winter about 60degrees, but has never been a problem in past

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    25,930
    Quote Originally Posted by fr420 View Post
    Your assuming SaT. vapor, but if I'm flooding wouldn't that be sat. liquid? then the temp is 32degrees. Now evn though I was flooding I didn't have a clear liquid line sightglass, so I did add some refrigerant to see what would happen and my pressur did increase there for so did the suction temp, but originally my suction temp was about 25 degrees when it was icing up

    So, you're now claiming a subcooled suction line?

    32F SCT (this is wrong, but I'll play along) with a 25 degree suction line?

    5 degrees suction subcooling?



    Your readings are wrong, friend.



    icexprt,

    I've seen suction/liquid heat exchangers blow out and leak through. Not very common to see that particular part on smaller equipment like this.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Phila, PA
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    191
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    So, you're now claiming a subcooled suction line?

    32F SCT (this is wrong, but I'll play along) with a 25 degree suction line?

    5 degrees suction subcooling?



    Your readings are wrong, friend.



    icexprt,

    I've seen suction/liquid heat exchangers blow out and leak through. Not very common to see that particular part on smaller equipment like this.
    I dont know if you mis-understood me or your just an arrogant prick. But never once claimed I had a subcooled suction line. I said temp was originally 25 and rose to 32degrees as I added some refigerant.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,841
    Is the box full of turkey ice cream and is your name Feng?


    Did you do a pumpdown test and check amps vs nameplate? Also, I know I've seen somewhere 414b do not to charge by sight glass.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by fr420 View Post
    I dont know if you mis-understood me or your just an arrogant prick. But never once claimed I had a subcooled suction line. I said temp was originally 25 and rose to 32degrees as I added some refigerant.

    You said that you measured a 38 pound suction line with 414b, then disagreed with me when I pointed out that it was impossible for ice to form at that condition. (47 degrees Saturation Temp)


    You said that you thought that you should use the bubble point (liquid side) for the suction line (32 Saturation temp). This is incorrect, you would use DEW point for the suction side of the system.

    So, I'm using what you've given me of your readings and some simple math to point out why I think that your readings are erroneous.

    You can call me an arrogant prick if you like, I've been called worse and I'm still standing.

    What I do know is refrigeration, and something here isn't adding up.

  7. #20
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    Oct 2011
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    Chicagoland Area
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    icexprt,

    I've seen suction/liquid heat exchangers blow out and leak through. Not very common to see that particular part on smaller equipment like this.
    I've seen a number of them over the years, only on R12 systems
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Western KY
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    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by fr420 View Post
    I dont know if you mis-understood me or your just an arrogant prick. But never once claimed I had a subcooled suction line. I said temp was originally 25 and rose to 32degrees as I added some refigerant.
    Easy big fella. Your numbers are confusing. You said originally 25 degree suction with 38psi. That would indicate a sub cooled condition. Even if you added refrigerant and raised the suction to 32 the SST is 44+ so something isn't adding up. Maybe we are talking about different things. When you say suction temp are you talking about saturated suction temp, from your PT chart, or the actual suction temp, taken with a thermometer?

  9. #22
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Given that 414b is a blend, what you're describing is THEORETICALLY possible, though.

    If that is the case, you're dumping almost PURE liquid into that compressor and it's probably already dead.


    Time to start at the beginning and find out WHY you aren't absorbing enough heat in the evaporator to fully boil all of the refrigerant being fed by the TEV.

    Dirty? Fans? Oversized valve? Valve stuck open?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    I've seen a number of them over the years, only on R12 systems
    I've seen them on systems with any flavor of juice in them, just not commonly on "single"
    type condensing units.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Phila, PA
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    You said that you measured a 38 pound suction line with 414b, then disagreed with me when I pointed out that it was impossible for ice to form at that condition. (47 degrees Saturation Temp)

    Didn't disagree, was just trying to explain myself better. I swear to you that with my 38lb suction I had a 32degree suction line, and before I added the extra refrigerant my suction temp was 25degrees. I even checked my guage with another gauge.

    You said that you thought that you should use the bubble point (liquid side) for the suction line (32 Saturation temp). This is incorrect, you would use DEW point for the suction side of the system.

    I agree you use dew point for suction side. But with the readings I was getting that didnt add up. so I thought to myself maybe because I'm flooding and there is liquid in the suction line that I should look at bubble point. Because the readings made sense the, but maybe I'm way off with that.

    So, I'm using what you've given me of your readings and some simple math to point out why I think that your readings are erroneous.

    You can call me an arrogant prick if you like, I've been called worse and I'm still standing.

    What I do know is refrigeration, and something here isn't adding up.

    This site I always thought was to help each other, not to be-little people by trying to prove your smarter, so unless you have any suggestions I personally dont need any of your comments about my erroneous readings

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
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    Without proper readings everyone is making guesses
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Phila, PA
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy knocker View Post
    Easy big fella. Your numbers are confusing. You said originally 25 degree suction with 38psi. That would indicate a sub cooled condition. Even if you added refrigerant and raised the suction to 32 the SST is 44+ so something isn't adding up. Maybe we are talking about different things. When you say suction temp are you talking about saturated suction temp, from your PT chart, or the actual suction temp, taken with a thermometer?

    Actual with a thermometer, and I know the numbers are confusing that's why I'm asking for help.

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