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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dyersburg, TN
    Posts
    208

    Energy Managment

    I have a commerical customer who is wanting a control system, but he is wanting me to give him some kind of enegry analysis to see how long it will take to pay for itself. He gave me all eletric and gas bill for the last six months. I went to the facility and got all the hvac equipment data along with FLA data for each unit and the btu for all the furnaces. They have several split systems with twin furnaces for the most part. What is the best way to come up with a figure to tell tem that a control system will save them money by setting a agressive setback during unoccuppied periods and so on. Any input is greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,453
    You have about half of the info you need. Start with at least a year of utility bills and in order to properly do an energy benchmark you need to do an analysis on the building by recording a multitude of measurements over a period of several days. You can give a rough estimate based on the info you have, but it would be rough at best. You do not want the customer to come back a year later when they dont hit the marks you gave them. Are you going to consider their lighting loads as well, chances are they want to know how to save energy in all aspects and not just hvac. PM me and I can give some more insight.
    "It's always controls"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    2,155
    How are the units being controlled now? You need to also know the building occupancy schedules. Any outside air? What about domestic hot water and reciric pumps?

    Lighting loads with motion detectors linked to units serving the areas are another good method.

    Just trying to throw more ideas out there...
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dyersburg, TN
    Posts
    208
    They are standalone non-progammable t-stats. This is bank so occupancy is around 8-5, they donot have any outside air. thanks for ur input.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,355
    If this were my customer I would hire (or recommend someone for him to hire) an energy consultant to do a complete audit of his building energy usage and give him an estimated payback. I wouldn't try it myself because there are many variables that one must consider and there are companies that do that sort of thing for a living.

    I have a software program that will estimate payback for installing a VFD on a cooling tower, ahu, pump etc, but there's a lot more to consider for the entire building.
    Saving the world...one service call at a time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by mallron View Post
    If this were my customer I would hire (or recommend someone for him to hire) an energy consultant to do a complete audit of his building energy usage and give him an estimated payback. I wouldn't try it myself because there are many variables that one must consider and there are companies that do that sort of thing for a living.

    I have a software program that will estimate payback for installing a VFD on a cooling tower, ahu, pump etc, but there's a lot more to consider for the entire building.
    There are companies that will perform the audits free of charge..

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dyersburg, TN
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by jaceski View Post
    There are companies that will perform the audits free of charge..
    Do u what kind of companies these are?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyr325 View Post
    Do u what kind of companies these are?


    Here is one company....

    http://www.dnvkema.com/

    They get paid through the Utility companies, not the customer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Desert Southwest
    Posts
    663
    Contact the local electric utility, they will have someone and will want to be involved.
    If you can't fix it with JB Weld, Duct Tape, and Ty Wire it has to be replaced.
    No good deed goes unpunished.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    967
    what size building are we talking about? what kind of systems does he have?

    Trane , carrier, even some independent guys will do it. Just need to make calls.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dyersburg, TN
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    what size building are we talking about? what kind of systems does he have?

    Trane , carrier, even some independent guys will do it. Just need to make calls.
    This is a six floor bank that has mostly Goodman 90℅ furnaces with missed matched condensers

  12. #12

    Facility Elect. Load Factor

    From the annual electrical billing records you can do a fairly easily calculation to find the Facility Electrical Load Factor:

    Load Factor = (total kWh/peak kW x period) x 100% The period would be the number of hours the building is operating in a year.

    If Load Factor < 70-80% then they have high peak usage.

    Controls can be used for rescheduling to off-peak times (sometimes not always possible, but it makes for a good pitch story. )

    Otherwise see attached ECO Measures PDF.
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