tracer summit vav low air flow alarm nuisance (daily)

[heresjohnnyb]

I have a building with three intellipacks hooked up to three floors of vav boxes. Comm 5 boxes all trane. One intelli per floor. Also running VAS. No issues with the system besides daily nuisance alarms of low air flow for random vav boxes on each floor. I know it has been looked at in the past, and it was determined that the building has GHOSTS. The alarms are always in the morning when the vav system recalibrates, I THINK. They give alarms for low air flow, and within a few minutes , they go alarm to normal. Just wondering if anyone has seen this.. All the VAV boxes are all daisy chained together in strange ways i was told by another tech. This is a Lontalk event also. HELLLLPP! would be greatly appreciated.

[Nuclrchiller]

Yep. My building did this. I have about 150 boxes. My Trane guy said it didn't affect operation, it was just a nuisance. It could also bump old, important alarms off the log replacing important info with useless info. He was able able to get it to stop, but it took him a couple days of programming changes made at the BCU's. Like one small change, made numerous times, for each box. Using his laptop. He was very familar with this and knew exactly what needed to be done. I'm not knowlegable enough to say what it was, but I'm sure others here are. As should be your local Trane controls tech.

[heresjohnnyb]

Trane guy said ghosts. Lol. Thanks for your input. We are on the right track I think

[alcomech]

Is the Tracer controlling the Intellipak or is it set up as local control.
What is the set point for static pressure and where is the static pressure pick up tube located.
Does the Intellipak have Statictrac control option.
I assume you have a VFD for motor speed control.
Are you providing morning warm when this happen

[alcomech]

Here is some info

[alcomech]

Look at this info

[controldude]

Load the latest image into the boxes problem solved. ie: 0008_VV550_Appl_1_6_4.NXE

[heresjohnnyb]

Area control and they are all on drives. It does have morning warmup and night economize. Thanks for the PDF files. They should help. There are around 250 vav in the building and about 25 vav send the event of low air. The rest are happy happy

[heresjohnnyb]

the units operate off of a static setpoint value that is calculated from the vas and cpl. So it changes periodically to compensate for the load on the building.

[Nuclrchiller]

I believe this is a Summit issue, not an Intellipak issue. I'll try to get in touch and ask my Trane guy what he did. He did say at the time that this building was being commisioned when a (software?) change was made by Trane. He felt that the change should have been made then. That enabled him to negotiate (with his boss) a significant cost reduction for his time to make the change.

[heresjohnnyb]

Area control and they are all on drives. It does have morning warmup and night economize. Thanks for the PDF files. They should help. There are around 250 vav in the building and about 25 vav send the event of low air. The rest are happy happy

[Nuclrchiller]

Just talked to my buddy. Controldude nailed it in post #7. He said Rover is needed to do it. Although, I remember him being at my workstation to complete it. I thought he was doing the last few from here, but maybe not. I definately remember him getting frustrated with slow load times from here, and sometimes having to attempt it a second time. Maybe he just preferred using Rover rather than having to.

[sycontrol]

I have Trane bacnet VAV UC400 controller that is doing similar things. when it goes from unocc to occ it's like it gets lost in its calibration. the graphic will show the damper at 100% but the measure air flow from the box is like 300 cfm with a minimum heat of 600cfm. I have to lower the min flow setpoint and then the box recalibrates (I'm assuming because the reported damper position is -22% and active flow SP goes to 0cfm) and all is well for another day. The issue is when it's like this the box heat won't come on. I have be doing this and searching for a solution. I called my Trane rep but so far no call back yet.

[alcomech]

heresjohnnyb I realize that there could be some concern as to the set up of the VAV's themselves. It would not hurt to check how the calibration function is performed by itself as Sycontrol has stated. Its certain that that static pressure can be maintained through CPL if set up for this type of control. If that's the case you will need to identify which CPL file is used and verify that it is set up correctly.

Also check the Intellipak which appears to be listed as CCP01-RTU01 which has a flow sensor failure. It is possible that the transducer has failed or maybe its performance has degraded.

[heresjohnnyb]

Rtu 1 is a different building mr alco. there are about 25 facilities on our summit DB. There is one guy who can access rover at our company, so anything i find here i have to explain to him lol. I and my fellow techs have restricted access.You guys are awesome by the way. Im thinking we are on the right track. So what configurations must be fixed from rover. Just guessing its something in the vav setup that is a little off. Control dude and nurlchiller can you enlighten me more on updating the latest image into the boxes.I am new to summit and am trying to get familiar with it. Plus i gotta explain it to mr automation and our trane guy who believes in ghosts lol

[Nuclrchiller]

You'll have to wait for Controldude to return. I've told you all that I know, and I probably wouldn't understand the procedure well enough to repeat it even if I got my buddy to explain it to me in detail. I'm an old chiller tech, now making a living as a HVAC tech in state buildings. My comfort level with Summit is slightly more than operator level. I will be following your progress. Good luck.

[Nuclrchiller]

Alcomech's mention of calibration reminded me that while my Trane guy was here updating images he saw that my site was not programmed to regularly calibrate boxes. He scheduled a weekly calibration, during "Unoccupied" mode in the middle of the night. It is listed under "Setup", then "Schedules...". He named mine "VAV Recalibration Schedule", but I believe he created the name. Yours could have a different name. I don't know if a higher level of access is required to get there, or if you have it.

[controldude]

You will need the latest Rover and knowledge of it's use, then you just use the flash download wizard to reflash with the latest image. I have had problems with it not working the first try so before you do this the smartest thing to do is save a complete config. backup of every device or you may get real upset if it doesn't install correctly because it saves it's own backup but if it fails it doesn't keep the info so all flow gains, stpts, fan, heat options are gone. then you also have to unassign from summit and reassign all controllers that have been modified due to having a different program id now. good luck it is time consuming!

[heresjohnnyb]

thanks for all of your help guys. i will give an update whan we give her a try. Thanks again

[jaceski]

i had a couple of pneumatic tube connections on the box cracked, causing airflow to be intermittent.