I actually hoping to be able to go down to a 2.5ton or possibly a 2ton unit once I get my air infiltration taken care of!
Originally Posted by duckman06
I will see if I can have them quote me the XB14 as well and find out when they can come back to do a proper load calculation.
Anyone have any thoughts on the Trane "CleanEffects" filter??
Clean effects works good when clean but needs to be serviced (cleaned) regularly to maintain effectiveness. Unless you have an allergy problem I would go with a standard 4-5" media filter.
Originally Posted by rk05
Thanks all for the expert advice!
Great way to think ahead as any energy improvements you make to the home will lower the size of system needed for the home. Even if (2.5) ton the numbers are still the same with a little gain but going with a proper sized system will save you the life of the system!
Originally Posted by rk05
The clean effects is a love/hate topic that a lot of posters ask. Some say it not worth the money but I say it is if anyone in your family suffers from servere Algeria problems or yourself. I love mine but it was not for me but for my wife an little girl who suffer from bad allergies problems. The key as mentioned is to keep it cleaned and make sure your duct system is sealed supply and return. Plus return needs to be size properly for whichever size you go with.
if you do go with the clean effects i would ask if them to put the 24 inch in the duct and not the 17 inch on the furnace. myself i think the xr 13 is good option
We really need change now
Originally Posted by rk05
Yes there is nothing wrong with the XR13. I was not thinking heat pump on outdoor unit at first then realized that original poster was looking at duel fuel set up.
Originally Posted by catmanacman
I just looked at match ups with the XR13 heat pump with a XV 95 furnace. Depending on coil and furnace this selection can easily get 14 seer. I think this to be a good matchup that will help with the budget if you need to tighten the numbers up and not sacrifice seer rating.
To original poster just be sure you installer checks return air sizing. Undersized return and variable speed never work right. A variable speed furnace or air handler installed without proper return and for that matter supply will want to ramp up faster to overcome this. Just have them verify the sizing.
I think from what I have read that with our current 3 ton system if we went down to a 2.5 ton we would be better with using our current duct work. I will have them check it to make sure though.
If the XR 13 can get me at least 14 seer then I will definitely check it out since I'm sure it will be cheaper and better than our current system.
We just want a dependable unit that runs better than our current one.
Has the contractor looked at the duct work to see how much cfm/supply and return it is sized for? The XR13 paired with a XV95 is a great system. The key is the install. As long as installed properly the system should work fine for many years.
Originally Posted by rk05
While no system is 100% full proff to last with out a component failing. If installed and installed propely should work just fine. You might want to look into ext. warranty if you are concerned with the system failing. This way the system in the above listed matchup can have ext. warranty coverage on parts, coil, LABOR and compressor for 10 years. I recommend to all my customers to ensure if something does fail say 5 years in that it will all be covered by warranty.
This is just some things that I would talk to your installer about before purchasing the system.
I just skimmed some of the responses so forgive me if I missed something.
You said your contractor was going to come back and do a load calc. Has he came back? If he hasn't, do not use him. Any contractor that wouldn't do this CRITICAL procedure is not the contractor for you.
You need to have a full Manual J load calculation and have you ductwork inspected for any needed modifications. This is minimum and should be completed on every quote. You can even dive a little deeper and get full energy audit performed included a blower test. An EA will let you know a number of things that can be done to reduce the load on the home.
http://www.bpi.org Check this website to find someone who is local and can perform an EA.
Once this is performed then you should concentrate on SEER/AFUE ratings and finding a contractor you are comfortable with that will give you the best install possible.
Brand selection should be the last thing considered. All manufacturers put out a good quality product.
As Loonie stated, if you are going to go with the dual fuel setup then the Honeywell vision pro/prestige IAQ or Trane's XL950 will be a good choice. Any stat that isn't dual fuel capable will work with the addition of a relay pack installed at the furnace.
I have not had a call back yet from this contractor about the load calc and they even talked to me about doing them at the home show that I meet them through.
This contractor did not say much about the duct work but a previous one did say the duct work should handle 3-tons but he didn't do any calcs either. He did say I should reroute the line that comes off the top of the plenum to our basement bath. Something about too much pressure at the top and the line should come off the side?
I want a 10yr parts and labor regardless of manufacture.
I had a energy audit done and showed this last contractor the results. The ACH were .64 if I remember correctly. He didnt look at it that much.
I am doing my basement remodel at the same time or before a new system is installed and I will be sealing up the rim joist with spray foam to help seal up the house. That is why I was thinking I could lower the system.
I would like to get 3 quotes to compare but how likely will it be for all three to actually do the manual j? I don't want to waste their time but I also want the correct size system, hopefully a smaller one.
You a customer that I would like to do business with. You want to improve your home to decrease the system size. Most customers that I run across that are adding more insulation to attic, changing window out etc... Still say they would like go stay with their same size system and have a little more cooling or worst want to increase the size of the system.
Originally Posted by rk05
In this cases the customer pays to have energy improvements but ignores the benfits of doing so by wanting to stay with the same size and or worse increasing the size of their system because their brother did it. This is when a load cal and knowing how to preform one comes in handy. I can then show the customer with their energy improvements that the new system will only need to be ?? Ton to heat and cool the home propely. Then back it up in writing that the system will do all that I say it will and provide comfort for their family. A valuable tool when used properly.
Now to get to your last question how many contractors will actually do a load cal? I will use my area as example. My company is the only one that truly does a load cal. On a customers home in my area this from expersene of having to overcome sizing objections when I say (2.5) ton is sized properly and others say they need a (3) ton. So lets say a customer gets three bids out of the three two contractors size the system for what is there or use square foot per ton method. Then I arrive before or after my competitors and say that a (2.5) ton system is needed to cool their homes. The customers thinking this guy is crazy but if I have my load cal done and offer it to customer with a written estimate stating that the system will perform propely with our average temps. Often time they say what if it doesn't cool simple it is writing that it would and I have the load cal to refer back to. If the issue is concerning to the customer I ask what the other contractors sized their home with? Often they say will they were Here for about 30 min and asked how my current system did and I told them worked good till the breakdown etc... Then they gave me a estimate. My simple reply is that each company has their ways for sizing equipment am ours is to do a full load cal to ensure system is sized propely and again we back it up in written to ensure you that it will heat and cool your home propely. If sizing is still a concern at this point 10-15% of the time I would recommend (2) stage if not already included in the estimate. Then explain why they would want to look at (2) stage equipment.
If I were you and a load cal is a must which I totally agree with call the dealers/contractors in your area and before setting up a appointment ask how they size a home heating and cooling system out. This will help you weed out companies that don't feel the need to load cal and find the ones that will. This will save you time and them time. It is truly sad that with techlogy that we have available today that a contractor would not be welling to perform a load cal. Shoot I remember still having to do by hand in the Feild compaired to now being able to use my smart phone, laptop and or I pad and it has become easier then ever to do in a short amount of time and be able to provide the customer with the results once done via email or by print out.
Duckman, I have been reading this forum for the last two years or better trying to get the most knowledge I can for when I do replace our system. I wish there were more contractors like you and others on this forum near me but unfortunately there are only three listed. I plan on calling them but I want to save them for last because I'm sure their recommendations will be the ones to consider more.
As far as Trane equipment goes I am going to look at the XR15 mostly unless the cost of either an XB14/XR13 is worth it along with the XV95 furnace. I need to contact our local utilities about rates to make sure the HP option is still the way to cover over a standard AC system.
I have looked up and found a couple different values used but what would be the design temp summer/winter for the Cincinnati, Ohio area? I would like to tell each contractor to use the same #'s so that the results are comparable. I plan on telling them also to use our current temps of 71 winter/ 76 summer.