Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 46

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    448

    Heatilator Model ND3630I

    While installing gas meters today , I noticed that one of our many new home builders had installed a couple of the Heatilator ND3630I Direct Vent Fireplaces in two of their new homes. These particular units had the Intellifire ignition system which utilizes a 3 volt control box and spark ignition for the pilot along with a variable Dexen control valve. This unit is new to me and I was just curious as to how reliable this ignition system is? Are these a new system or have they been around awhile? I did notice in the owner's manual that the back-up battery pack and the 3volt transformer cannot be used at the same time, either one or the other ,and if using the transformer the batteries cannot be installed in the battery pack! I also noticed that the wall mounted wall switch for the fan must be wired with a 14-3 wire from the switch to the junction box, a little bit different from what I'm used to seeing. Anything in particular one should be aware of when trouble-shooting this system?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,292

    Talking HHT's Intellifire IPI system

    It's been pretty reliable compared to standing pilot systems. There were some initial bugs but HHT flew some engineers over to China and corrected the quality issues with the Dexen valve pretty much except a few quirks.

    With a standing pilot, you must first light the pilot then turn the control knob to 'on' in order to get readings at the gas pressure taps. With the Dexen, as long as the gas cock is open, you have inlet pressure at the tap. No mechanical failsafe. You cannot adjust the pilot flame with the Dexen. When converting fuels, you can swap out the burner solenoid. However, there is a relatively high complication rate on field converted valves. There is a delicate flat O ring which gets easily crushed and everyone tries to use the wrong scwer holes. Need a tamperproof Torx-T20 bit.

    The new PSE pilot is much more reliable than the old Robertshaw 3 way flame, which needs a grounding strap at the right hand screw retaining the pilot assy. Needs a good ground.

    If you install two D cell batteries, it will suck them dead first then look to the 110vac. Therefore, they came up with a Cabin Kit to do the switching for you. Now their new WSK 300 wall control has this function built right in.

    The brown wires always are your on/off circuit and are low voltage, even with power venters and remotes or stats.

    The new fan kits use a timer so the fan kicks in after 7 minutes of burning and shutoff 12 minutes after burner shutdown. However, if you elect to control it with a wall rheostat, you'll need the 14/3 in a switch loop.

    In normal ignition, it will continue to spark for 60 seconds. Once good flame rectification is sensed, should it lose the signal, it will attempt to relight x 1 minute.

    If you need a standing pilot for that ~1,200 BTUs behind the glass or to prime the flue so it drafts out of the starting gate, you can select Cold Climate function on the wall control or buy the kit.

    This system tolerates wide swings in flame rectification. I've seen it run with 0.2 to 12.5 microamperes.

    In high humidity, some units fail to get good rectification until the flame rod's non-vitreous ceramic insulator dries out. Not a problem with the PSE pilot.

    Test you ground and polarity. More than about 5 mv ac on the neutral can freak it out. Did I say needs a good ground?

    When handling, don't allow valves to be tossed around. The potting in the valve can give way allowing things to move around inside. Treat it like a precision component..............that was made in China.

    IPI has been around with furnaces for over 12 yrs. now. Just when we get comfortable with this system, we'll begin switching over to UV detection.

    HTH

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    448
    Thank you for the detailed reply hearthman, great info!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    1,078
    you dont have to wire the j-box on a switch at all!. if you MUST then you should use 14/3 so that the black can be always hot for the IPI system and the red can be switched for the fan. FYI. You should always run the low volt switch wire with 18/3 at a min, no more 2 wire for fireplaces.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    448
    Thank you as well jtp10181, this site is a very useful tool for information and I do appreciate everyone who replies to my questions as I continue to learn in this trade.Thanks again

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,383
    I haven't encountered this ignition system ----yet.


    Hearthman gives a good deal of detail, but I can't really envision how the details work together, although I've had plenty of experience with intermittent pilot systems in furnaces.

    I'd be interested in a booklet designed to explain this system to technicians, if such a thing is available in paper or on line.




    Seattle Pioneer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,383
    Thanks for your description of this intermittent pilot system, Hearthman.

    Personally, I've always thought that 24 VAC intermittent pilot systems for furnaces were the best of all possible ways to light a burner. Some of the Honeywell ignition control boxes were really excellent ----I've had one in my furnace for 21+ years and it's worked great, and I've changed out few of those control modules over the decades.

    I'll have to print out this thread and you posts in particular so I'll have it when I encounter this system.


    Do you know how many microamps are needed for the system to prove a pilot and where to measure that current flow? Even 24 VAC systems could have problems getting sufficient current flow to prove, and since current flow through the pilot flame is usually propotional to the voltage I wonder if that can be a weak point.

    Also, silicon oxides on flame rods or other sensors can act to insulate and prevent the flame proving currents needed, especially with low voltages. Any indication if we are going to be out there cleaning dirty flame rods rather than dirty pilots?



    Seattle Pioneer

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    London, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    268

    Talking

    I hope the unit includes some rtv silicone (red) otherwise there will be many unhappy canadian customers with cold walls. Ironically they will spend more money to keep the wall warm than they would on a pilot system. More work to get the spider out every fall also.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    78
    Those in Canada are not the only ones who would want a pilot on. That is why HHT offers a number on new wall contols where turning the pilot on is a feature. The new series WSK100, 200 and 300 all offer the ability to turn the pilot on, leave the batteries in while run on 110 and verify that the batteries are not dead. There are times of the year that it is so bitter cold that you want your pilot on and if you live near water, ie beach houses, it is best to leave the pilot on due to the high humidity or salt air. Keeps the box from rusting more than normal...

  10. #10

    Confused battery question

    Several of you have mention the battery back up. My model won't light when the power is out. Is this because there is no back-up? Maybe no or dead batteries? I 've been suffering through the ice storm that slammed Missouri this past weekend. My power came back on, but we're expecting more winter weather this weekend. I've love to be able to light my fire, so to speak, if I need to. Thanks for you help.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,292

    Question Which model?

    Do you know your model #? Can you tell if it is IPI or DSI?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7

    WSK100 -- Rocker Operation and Battery

    I'm planning to install a WSK100 to the HnG Cosmo SLR.

    I am looking at the WSK100-HNG install manual; it says nothing about leaving batteries in without sucking them dry, and automatically switching to battery backup on power failure. Where do I find out more? This is a critical feature for me.

    Also, it looks like the WSK100 disables the BRN/BRN lines that the stock WSK-21 rocker uses for on/off. The new switch offers GRN/YEL/RED lines, but I don't know which is burner on/off. Is there still an on/off line? Can I use the BRN/BRN on the WSK controller to get my home automation to turn on/off the burner?
    Last edited by CeeDee; 01-30-2009 at 01:07 AM. Reason: <thought it was the wrong thread>

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    1,078
    You can only have one wall control. Either use your home automation system or use a HNG wall control. FYI I think the WSK100 is discontinued so you should be looking at the WSK200 which is the same thing except it can also control a fan, which I don't think is an option for the cosmo. You would just have an extra useless button. But hay maybe they brought the WSK100 back also and forgot to tell us, would not surprise me.

    On both of these controls (100 and 200) you can leave the batteries in all the time if you want, it auto switches to battery power if the module looses power. I don't know what kind of damage the heat / cool would do to them though.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event