Work in Southern CA

[Icanfixitall]

My apprenticeship training courses in NO WAY prepared me for the job I do every day.

Not the 5 years of schooling

Not the STAR exam

Not the continuing education courses

Nothing.

Now, I've spent my own time, on this site, on the internet, in the books that I compulsively collect and read, on the RSES website reading the SAM manual and you want to talk about education....


So, in short, the union's apprenticeship program didn't do a lot to prepare me for the job that I do today.

I'm not saying that it made me who I am either but it did push me to go to school for 2 times a week from 6-9pm it makes you want to learn for the money. I agree 90% of my training came from the field learning and watching my supervisor. I feel that the union will give you better morals then a new kid not coming up in the union! I have seen people come and go but they guys that go thru the apprenticeship seem to do better in their career.

[jpsmith1cm]

I'm not saying that it made me who I am either but it did push me to go to school for 2 times a week from 6-9pm it makes you want to learn for the money. I agree 90% of my training came from the field learning and watching my supervisor. I feel that the union will give you better morals then a new kid not coming up in the union! I have seen people come and go but they guys that go thru the apprenticeship seem to do better in their career.

My experience is the exact opposite of this.

My experience is that those who go through the apprenticeship have the same "gimme" mentality that too many in this country have.

They expect the "cushy" jobs and big money without having to put in the blood, sweat and effort to EARN their way to those jobs.

They have the mindset to do just enough to get by rather than doing whatever is necessary to do the job and, when called on it, fall back on the union to "rescue" them.

By comparison, those that have worked outside the union and get a life experience credit transfer into the union tend to work harder and are more willing to put in the time and effort to build their skills on their own time and to continuously advance their skills and knowledge.

As I said, this is my experience and your mileage may vary.

[Phase Loss]

I have a question for you. Do you feel with your apprenticeship, passed Star exam that you are an adequately trained commercial refrigeration technician?

I know guys who have gone through the Unions Apprenticeship and turned Journeyman...who have little clue about what they're doing.

I know guys who have gone through Sources "Tek-Skills"... who have little clue about what they are doing.

I have never gone through the apprenticeship, but I have gone through Tek-Skills. I can't say one is better than the other, as I've never gone through both.

But I can say neither Tek-Skills or the Apprenticeship alone will make an adequately trained technician... I've worked hand in hand with guys from both programs who are not adequately trained.

I'm with JP on the need for continued education, spending your own time to further yourself & stay up to date.

That's the guy who's 1 in 100 who will become an adequately trained technician.

[Dowadudda]

you guys screwed this up on me. I was gonna try to do something. nevermind. dumba$$e$.

[Icanfixitall]

My experience is the exact opposite of this.

My experience is that those who go through the apprenticeship have the same "gimme" mentality that too many in this country have.

They expect the "cushy" jobs and big money without having to put in the blood, sweat and effort to EARN their way to those jobs.

They have the mindset to do just enough to get by rather than doing whatever is necessary to do the job and, when called on it, fall back on the union to "rescue" them.

By comparison, those that have worked outside the union and get a life experience credit transfer into the union tend to work harder and are more willing to put in the time and effort to build their skills on their own time and to continuously advance their skills and knowledge.

As I said, this is my experience and your mileage may vary.

What really gets me is when a non union tech comes into the union and gets his journeyman card with little to no effort... This has nothing to do with phase loss. The standard should be they have to take the UA apprentice test as well as the UA STAR exam. Most of the new Journeyman all have to do it but why shouldn't they?? If a guy comes from non union I'm all for it, thats just making our union stronger, but they should have to do the same as the other journeyman do..

[cmclifton]

What really gets me is when a non union tech comes into the union and gets his journeyman card with little to no effort... This has nothing to do with phase loss. The standard should be they have to take the UA apprentice test as well as the UA STAR exam. Most of the new Journeyman all have to do it but why shouldn't they?? If a guy comes from non union I'm all for it, thats just making our union stronger, but they should have to do the same as the other journeyman do..

When I joined Local 230 down here in San Diego, I had a year to take the same test that an apprentice does when he turns out in order to keep my journeyman card.

[MechanicallyInclined]

So Hillphoenix is Union in CA? I was told that they're non-Union here. Guys at Source (and even non-Union Hussmann here) tend to compare their 60 Hrs paychecks to 40 Hrs Union shops paychecks. Of course, the 60 is higher, but the Union shops are about $5/Hr higher. I'd rather work for a Union shop at 40 Hrs with two pensions and health & welfare paid for. I'm not going to complain about paying membership dues and working dues because it is what it is.

[Phase Loss]

So Hillphoenix is Union in CA?

Yup

[NedFlanders]

What really gets me is when a non union tech comes into the union and gets his journeyman card with little to no effort... This has nothing to do with phase loss. The standard should be they have to take the UA apprentice test as well as the UA STAR exam. Most of the new Journeyman all have to do it but why shouldn't they?? If a guy comes from non union I'm all for it, thats just making our union stronger, but they should have to do the same as the other journeyman do..

I came from non union side 10+ years ago. When I came over , they asked others in the trade about me, I spoke with the people hiring me,and blamo,I became a "journeyman" (whatever that means)

I never went through the union schooling.I know many that have also worked around it as I have. Some of these guys are the best in the trade. I know guys that are union for life that are awesome, I know lifers that are dumb ass hell.

Just because you spend time in a room with another guy talking to you , means NOTHING.

Not everyone takes the same path from A-B , but when we arrive , it's all the same. We all pay our dues in different ways. ( I know , I payed mine)

Being a tech union/non-union and learning in the field, could be argued, is a better way to learn.

Can't we all just get along? SoCal HP is the best ever,the rest suck(flame suit on)

That Phaseloss is a slippery one

[MechanicallyInclined]

Do you guys go into DoubleTime after 12 Hrs.?

[NedFlanders]

Do you guys go into DoubleTime after 12 Hrs.?

If you mean me, no

The only double time we see is holidays and "new"construction on Sundays.

Source gets all kinds of DT....that's one thing I miss .

[MechanicallyInclined]

How does Source pay DT?

[Phase Loss]

How does Source pay DT?

After 12 hours worked in a day.

[jackintheboxtec]

In california after 12 hours in a day it's double time.

[Phase Loss]

In california after 12 hours in a day it's double time.

Not for me or Flanders

[cmclifton]

Working under the ARCA agreement?

[Icanfixitall]

I did my interview with Hill Phoenix, waiting to hear!

[Phase Loss]

I did my interview with Hill Phoenix, waiting to hear!

good luck!

hopefully they don't tell you to give them 30 days to figure things out?

[MechanicallyInclined]

If California labor law says Double Time after 12 Hrs, then that supersedes you CBA. Double Time on Holiday Days and Sundays are different than Double Time in excess of 12 Hrs worked.

[cmclifton]

If California labor law says Double Time after 12 Hrs, then that supersedes you CBA. Double Time on Holiday Days and Sundays are different than Double Time in excess of 12 Hrs worked.

The local union halls, representatives, handbooks, etc. All imply that the CBA supercedes california law by stating that you only get double time on holidays or Sundays if you're under the ARCA agreement. Those of us that worked under the same agreement that the steamfitters worked under (at least in Local 230 San Diego) got DT at 10 hours, any Sunday, any holiday, any time we were called out after hours if we had already returned home after an 8 hour shift...

That double time was the excuse my last union employer used to lay me off after they hired a couple local 250 ARCA guys from up north and I wouldn't agree to switch to the ARCA agreement back when Local 230 had zero ARCA journeymen and the pay scale difference between the two agreements was roughly $10/hour...