Leak detection and me...

[koolkahuna]

Do not eat hours on a leak test!!!
You didn't make the leak.

I got bit once by a leak on the mounting stud on an accumulator, on the bottom, leaking.

Rusted accumulators will leak through the pits so check the whole thing not just the connections.

1) Great advice!

2) Yup

3) That means factory welds too.

[Helioson]

Do not eat hours on a leak test!!! You didn't make the leak.

I'm not suggesting eating hours on every job, or if you "get it" then not at all.

If an inexperieced, impatient, new tech isn't finding leaks and continues to have more experienced tech's coming behind him finding leaks....well....he's gonna be looking for a new career soon.

To this day, if I make a mistake that I know I could've avoided, I "eat" the time. You don't have to and I don't HAVE to, but that's what I was taught and that's what I'll do.

If a new tech can find a company and/or customer to pay him to sit there trying to figure it on their dime, then that's great. Charge them until they squeal.

My point is that most new guys (I was the same way), think they can just do their "eight" and all is well. OK, whatever.

I apologize to anyone who took this the wrong way. You absolutely do not HAVE to eat any hours, ever.

OP: If you want to excell in ANY career you are going to have to put some TIME in to stand above the crowd. Have you ever heard of an athlete putting in some extra hours on the field, or a office guy staying late to wrap up a project, or how many techs get paid for extra training (some do, I know, but some don't). Best of luck to you and I hope you figure it out soon.

[Tommy knocker]

I'm not suggesting eating hours on every job, or if you "get it" then not at all.

If an inexperieced, impatient, new tech isn't finding leaks and continues to have more experienced tech's coming behind him finding leaks....well....he's gonna be looking for a new career soon.

To this day, if I make a mistake that I know I could've avoided, I "eat" the time. You don't have to and I don't HAVE to, but that's what I was taught and that's what I'll do.

If a new tech can find a company and/or customer to pay him to sit there trying to figure it on their dime, then that's great. Charge them until they squeal.

My point is that most new guys (I was the same way), think they can just do their "eight" and all is well. OK, whatever.

I apologize to anyone who took this the wrong way. You absolutely do not HAVE to eat any hours, ever.

OP: If you want to excell in ANY career you are going to have to put some TIME in to stand above the crowd. Have you ever heard of an athlete putting in some extra hours on the field, or a office guy staying late to wrap up a project, or how many techs get paid for extra training (some do, I know, but some don't). Best of luck to you and I hope you figure it out soon.

Good and valid points. If I bone head something then I'll fix it on me to a point. Looking for a leak is not a bone head on me though. Some leaks are easy some are not. Every new tech and experienced are constantly learning and yes the customer or shop should pay us for that. IMHO.

[Helioson]

Ok..I'm reasonable "to a point" Let's use YOUR words...
bonehead, defenition /'bon,hed/ noun: stupid person
1. these words used to express a low opinion of someone's intelligence.
2. being a college course for students lacking fundamental skills.
3. as used in HVAC/R: to charge a system that one believes has a leak, then ineptly perform a leak check with no results, and then walk away from said system.
Bonehead IMHO

[Helioson]

Tommy knocker, OP and all other members...please forgive me for being so passionate about my opinion. We all know what they say about opinions. In rereading my posts I realize that they may seem argumentative and borderline defamatory. I in no way want to portray this attitude. I fully respect all people who would attempt to make a career of this business. OP-keep at it, you'll get it. Tommy knocker-if you ever find yourself in the Pacific Northwest...e-mail me and I'll buy you a dinner and a drink. Thanks for your understanding,
Helioson

[KeyResults]

1. There are different types of detectors. Understand them and make sure yours is/are good ones! I like my Fieldpiece.

2. Keep sensor clean!

3. Switch detector on in clean air - as most units calibrate at power up. (This bites a lot of guys).

4. Go SLOW and steady when sweeping sensor tip, and keep it dry.
5. Refrigerant being heavy will show best underneath fittings and valves. It will collect low in case and housings sometimes making it worth a poke w detector.
6. Newer installs usually start with connection points and welds. Older r22 units 15+ years ill jump right to evap.
Small condenser coil leaks can be a real bugger outside. Especially on breezy days. A non-permeable cover can help (system off).
7. Operating pressure via nitro is very helpful. Sometimes you'll hear it with unit off but at op pressure.
8. Oil is key indicator.
9. Blue bubbles are amazing at exposing schrader valve and flare leaks.
10. It's a sealed system. There should be NO leakage. You can find it. Did I mention SLOW & steady?

K

[refrepairman]

I have also found it can help to raise the pressure as much as possible w/o n2. I have found leaks more than once on evap. coils on a rack system by putting the case in hot gas defrost and you can sometimes even hear the leak then. It can be a challenge but stick with it!

[koolkahuna]

Tommy knocker, OP and all other members...please forgive me for being so passionate about my opinion. We all know what they say about opinions. In rereading my posts I realize that they may seem argumentative and borderline defamatory. I in no way want to portray this attitude. I fully respect all people who would attempt to make a career of this business. OP-keep at it, you'll get it. Tommy knocker-if you ever find yourself in the Pacific Northwest...e-mail me and I'll buy you a dinner and a drink. Thanks for your understanding,
Helioson

You really hurt my feelings. I like prime rib with a tall cold one!
Hey, I don't rent space in my head to anybody. It's all good brother. Appreciate the sound check though.

[Tommy knocker]

Tommy knocker, OP and all other members...please forgive me for being so passionate about my opinion. We all know what they say about opinions. In rereading my posts I realize that they may seem argumentative and borderline defamatory. I in no way want to portray this attitude. I fully respect all people who would attempt to make a career of this business. OP-keep at it, you'll get it. Tommy knocker-if you ever find yourself in the Pacific Northwest...e-mail me and I'll buy you a dinner and a drink. Thanks for your understanding,
Helioson

Nothing to forgive. No matter the route we choose I suspect we end up at the same place most of the time. You know how techs are. We may not always be rite but we are never wrong.

[BALloyd]

I have found leaks more than once on evap. coils on a rack system by putting the case in hot gas defrost and you can sometimes even hear the leak then. It can be a challenge but stick with it!

Or see the liquid refrigerant escaping the coil in HGD. Had a couple of those lately.


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[N2fords]

Remember hot pipes expand sometimes it seals the system let it cool and I bet you find some...

[icexprt]

Look for oil, look for oil, look for oil!!! This includes moist looking dirt or dust stuck to some part of the system. Start with a good flashlight and your eyes and brain, spending ample time searching for signs of oil. After that you can go to your truck and get out the electronic and bubbles! Remember that once you start spraying bubble soap, you have lost your opportunity for finding the oil as the bubble soap looks like oil until it dries and disappears! As already stated, you won't always find oil, but with a good eye you can frequently spot some.

Once years ago on an ice machine, I noticed some odd black, dry, chalky residue on the side panel. I took notice of it because I had never seen anything like it before, and so I asked myself, what is that? Where did it come from? How did it get there? The panel had rubbed against the discharge line for years and had finally worn a hole in the tube and caused a leak! Normally a discharge line leak will leave a nice trail of oil, but not that one! Just some wierd chalky stuff! The point is, try to notice everything unusual and then try to figure out what it is and how it got there. Every system you work on, touch and feel and notice everything you can! Especially on properly operating units! You need to know what the compressor, liquid line, drier, suction line and discharge line should feel like on working and malfunctioning units! If you do this you will start to notice patterns and be able to zero in quickly on problems, and eventually it will help you to determine hard to diagnose problems too!
Best of luck to you and welcome to the field!!! If you care and pay attention while working in this field, you will find that you can learn something new almost constantly for many, many years to come!!!

[Bobbycold]

If you reclaimed a full charge prior to sweating a new part in, guess where that leak most likely is? I had an understudy in the Coast Guard that could never get his heart around that one. Here is where I will get serious desent from the other posters here, but I only keep a leak detector around for those costumers who like to see them. I use soap and water to find every single leak I encounter. Back when I was in the service leak detectors served a purpose in detecting which space a leak was on, but on a package unit where all the refrigerant lines are in the same general area, relatively speaking, in my humble opinion, a leak detector is first degree useless. I'm old enough to have used the old halid flame leak detectors, where you watch the flame turn colors.

[Tommy knocker]

If you reclaimed a full charge prior to sweating a new part in, guess where that leak most likely is? I had an understudy in the Coast Guard that could never get his heart around that one. Here is where I will get serious desent from the other posters here, but I only keep a leak detector around for those costumers who like to see them. I use soap and water to find every single leak I encounter. Back when I was in the service leak detectors served a purpose in detecting which space a leak was on, but on a package unit where all the refrigerant lines are in the same general area, relatively speaking, in my humble opinion, a leak detector is first degree useless. I'm old enough to have used the old halid flame leak detectors, where you watch the flame turn colors.

I won't disagree completely. I do pinpoint all leaks, that are not obvious or huge, with bubbles. However I do use my ELD to narrow my search and save time. A small leak on a big system can take a long time to find with bubbles. Especially if its a odd ball like the stud on the bottom of an accumulator, almost impossible to find with bubbles alone.

[koolkahuna]

If you reclaimed a full charge prior to sweating a new part in, guess where that leak most likely is? I had an understudy in the Coast Guard that could never get his heart around that one. Here is where I will get serious desent from the other posters here, but I only keep a leak detector around for those costumers who like to see them. I use soap and water to find every single leak I encounter. Back when I was in the service leak detectors served a purpose in detecting which space a leak was on, but on a package unit where all the refrigerant lines are in the same general area, relatively speaking, in my humble opinion, a leak detector is first degree useless. I'm old enough to have used the old halid flame leak detectors, where you watch the flame turn colors.

I am respectfully submitting my dissent.
If it works for you have at 'er but I could buy 3 good electronic leak detectors a year with what that would cost in soap!

If you've ever done supermarket refrigeration you know that an ELD is priceless for walking through the store and sniffing the air discharge curtain on the system with a leak.

I do this as a pre-emptive strike anytime I am at a store and have found leaks before any other indicators such as bubbles in the sight glass or poor performance.
I use ELD, soap, and ultrasonic depending on where the leak is.
:beer:

[Bobbycold]

I've done a few convenience stores, and I can see where lines running through multiple spaces could be quicker with an electronic leak detector, yet overall, I don't have enough of those to warrant putting batteries in mine. Like I said in my earlier post, I did use them in the service, where a compressor and condensor could be as far as four decks from the reefer boxes and the lines pass thru many spaces. It did make narrowing the search down to a specific space easier, yet I don't have many units where I work where the lines pass many spaces, a couple split AC's and walkins are about it. Even the walk ins where the condensing unit is on the roof only have two spaces where that leak might be

[access_max]

Slow and steady always wins the race.

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[koolkahuna]

Exactly. For you it works the way you do it.
To each his own and it's all good.

[wicked251]

We run a Dtek through every store we visit. Amazing how many leaks we find and repair before the receiver alarms go off.

[Tommy knocker]

We run a Dtek through every store we visit. Amazing how many leaks we find and repair before the receiver alarms go off.

Luv my Dtek.