5yo Trane VS AH Paired w/ a new Tempstar txt+?

[SqueakyDog]

I have a nice Trane AH w/ an EAF, it's a 2007/8 model (TEE prefix). It has the coils and is all set for a HP -- currently electric heat only ($$$). Can I pair this w/ a new Tempstar 2-stage unit, while also making use of the Trane's VS fan (assuming use of a very capable t-stat)? Humidity control would be nice as well.

I can't afford the Xl16 now. I'd also like to reward Tempstar because of how happy I was w/ it's performance and reliability at my previous house.

1000 feet elevation in Willamette valley of the Pacific Northwest, so all about the HSPF - cooling is an added luxury for a few days out of the year.

(1600 sq ft ranch)

[BaldLoonie]

Is it a 4TEE meant for R410a? If so you could use another brand but you'd be far better off staying American Standard or Trane. I'd rather have a more basic matching unit like an XR15 than mismatch a 2 stage of another brand.

[SqueakyDog]

Is it a 4TEE meant for R410a? If so you could use another brand but you'd be far better off staying American Standard or Trane. I'd rather have a more basic matching unit like an XR15 than mismatch a 2 stage of another brand.

Yes, it is a 4TEE3F31B1000AA. Filter is an F300A2020. Heater is an BAYHTR1410+++. 3k btu, 2-ton.

Trying to learn more about how this all works, so some questions:

o Is this older Trane VS AH a "perfect match" w/ the XR16? Is this AH just as effective in maximizing efficiency as a brand new matched AH?

o Will I be able to take advantage of any local or Federal govt. incentives w/ this "old" AH and the new XR16? (not a show stopper tho)

o With regards to the Tempstar, what makes it a mismatch. Intuitively, I'm thinking of mis-communication between HP and AH (tho you can use a generic Honeywell t-stat?). Also, I'm thinking that the line set would need some adapters to the coils and other small variations?
Why can't a good thermostat vary the AH's fan speed w/ the heat pump.

Thanks for any additional info for this layman.

[duckman06]

I agree with BaldLonnie. I would not hook up another brand to your air handler other than Trane or American standard (same units). Look into the XR 15 Heat Pump.

That would be a perfect match with your Trane variable speed electric air handler. Also If you are leaning towards (2) stage ask about the XR 16 model. Since the XL 16 is out of your budget, the XR 16 is the same unit minus the top and few other minor things.

The Trane unit you have has it already been installed or do you just have it ready to be installed?

[SqueakyDog]

The Trane unit you have has it already been installed or do you just have it ready to be installed?

Yes, it was installed 5 years ago when new.

[duckman06]

Yes, it is a 4TEE3F31B1000AA. Filter is an F300A2020. Heater is an BAYHTR1410+++. 3k btu, 2-ton.

Trying to learn more about how this all works, so some questions:

o Is this older Trane VS AH a "perfect match" w/ the XR16? Is this AH just as effective in maximizing efficiency as a brand new matched AH?

o Will I be able to take advantage of any local or Federal govt. incentives w/ this "old" AH and the new XR16? (not a show stopper tho)

o With regards to the Tempstar, what makes it a mismatch. Intuitively, I'm thinking of mis-communication between HP and AH (tho you can use a generic Honeywell t-stat?). Also, I'm thinking that the line set would need some adapters to the coils and other small variations?
Why can't a good thermostat vary the AH's fan speed w/ the heat pump.

Thanks for any additional info for this layman.

To answer your question. I can't find a match on Trane website (dealers) for that matchup but that doesn't surprise me as they have updated all the info to match with the new Hyperion air handlers.

I can say that I had installed a lot of XR15 heat pumps a few years back with that air handler which at that time was a good match. That was with the XR 15 heat pump. I have never seen the match up with that air handler with a XR16 but again doesn't surprise me as that air handler is not being made anymore.

The best thing to do would be talk to the installing contractor and get them to research Ahri for matches with XR15 unit. I am not at my office but I am sure I have Ahri cert. that shows the match along with the number.

As as the federal tax credit goes the XR15 or XR16 should be eliable the problem you have is you are pairing with a 5 year old air handler that was already bought before the tax credit was available. I guess you could always still apply and get the credit depending on how the dealer writes up the invoice. I would NOT do this though. The one person you don't want to mesh with is Uncle Sam or the IRS.

I have a (2.5) ton XR 15 in my home with the same design air handler but the model is 4TEE3F037 air handler. You have the next smallest air handler which can be used with a 2-2.5ton XR15 that much I know for sure. My match up gave me 15.75 seer and I belive 9.0 hspf. It would just be best to talk to your installer as they will be the ones that will install, warranty and can tell you for 100% that the system will match up.

As far as trying to pair the tempstar unit with the Trane air handler? Think of it like this, it would be like putting a ford transmission in a toyota truck sure it can be made to work but for how long. You would be opening up yourself to problems that don't want.

[SqueakyDog]

As far as trying to pair the tempstar unit with the Trane air handler? Think of it like this, it would be like putting a ford transmission in a toyota truck sure it can be made to work but for how long. You would be opening up yourself to problems that don't want.

Thanks so much, duckMan (et al)! Very much appreciate it. Still more questions on the mismatch stuff but that's only because I haven't done my research. I'll save up some cash and maybe next year check out the XR16, or perhaps the next future compatible Inverter HP.

[duckman06]

Thanks so much, duckMan (et al)! Very much appreciate it. Still more questions on the mismatch stuff but that's only because I haven't done my research. I'll save up some cash and maybe next year check out the XR16, or perhaps the next future compatible Inverter HP.

No problem!!! If you need the system now the XR15 is still a good choice or even a Xb14 for that matter. The only thing you have going against you is the cost of the outdoor unit going up.

If you do Chosse to wait. Please at least talk to the installer about a new Hyperion air handler that Trane is offering now. This is what took the place of your current model unit. After a few minor problems for the most part all the bugs have been worked out. I have installed at least 30 of them with great results.

As if push comes to shove you can look at a XB 13 or XR13 with a heat pump and should have no problems getting at least 14 seer out of them with your current air handler. If price is the problem please look into this models. They are nothing fancy just base heat pumps but when paired with a variable speed air handler can get distance eff. numbers and might turn out to be just what you are looking for.

[jtrammel]

No problem!!! If you need the system now the XR15 is still a good choice or even a Xb14 for that matter. The only thing you have going against you is the cost of the outdoor unit going up.

If you do Chosse to wait. Please at least talk to the installer about a new Hyperion air handler that Trane is offering now. This is what took the place of your current model unit. After a few minor problems for the most part all the bugs have been worked out. I have installed at least 30 of them with great results.

As if push comes to shove you can look at a XB 13 or XR13 with a heat pump and should have no problems getting at least 14 seer out of them with your current air handler. If price is the problem please look into this models. They are nothing fancy just base heat pumps but when paired with a variable speed air handler can get distance eff. numbers and might turn out to be just what you are looking for.

and a xb13/xr13 heat pump will be ~ 3 times cheaper to operate in heat than your current electric furnace.

[SqueakyDog]

and a xb13/xr13 heat pump will be ~ 3 times cheaper to operate in heat than your current electric furnace.

Good to know.

[SqueakyDog]

They are nothing fancy just base heat pumps but when paired with a variable speed air handler can get distance eff. numbers and might turn out to be just what you are looking for.

How does a single-stage HP work w/ the VS AH? Doesn't the AH fan and HP run full on or full off (for ST HP)?

[jtrammel]

How does a single-stage HP work w/ the VS AH? Doesn't the AH fan and HP run full on or full off (for ST HP)?

basically yeah, It will can use a different speed for heat mode, ac mode and continuous fan. Most newer equipment comes with a variable speed blower motor (x13 or ECM) and they use less power to operate than a traditional fixed speed or multispeed PSC (permanent split capacitor) motor. VS air handlers are used all the time on single stage hp, their are little savings in a 2 stage heat pump it is used mainly for increased comfort rather than a return on investment over a single stage unit.

[mark beiser]

Can I pair this w/ a new Tempstar 2-stage unit, while also making use of the Trane's VS fan (assuming use of a very capable t-stat)? Humidity control would be nice as well.

Yes, it would work. Most likely it would work quite well.

The problem is that it is anyone's guess as to what the actual efficiency and capacity of the resulting system would be.

[SqueakyDog]

Yes, it would work. Most likely it would work quite well.

The problem is that it is anyone's guess as to what the actual efficiency and capacity of the resulting system would be.

I must be way underestimating the importance of the AH-HP relationship.

[mark beiser]

I must be way underestimating the importance of the AH-HP relationship.

The recommended and best practice, and even legal requirement in some areas, is to stick with rated and/or manufacturer approved matched equipment.
That way you always know what you will end up with for efficiency and capacity, and it protects you from situations where the equipment may not work properly.

For the most part, every manufacturers equipment follows very similar/same design principles, and are using the same or similar compressors and other parts.
In this case, the coil in your air handler was designed for use with very high efficiency heat pumps, and has a large coil, with plenty of internal volume to handle operation in the heating mode with pretty much any 1.5 to 2.5 ton conventional single or 2 stage heat pump, and many lower efficiency 3 ton heat pumps.

There wouldn't be any operational issues at all, but there isn't any knowing what the actual efficiency and capacity of the match will be.

While there are any number of air handler and heat pump combinations that will not work properly, in both heating and cooling, without seasonal refrigerant charge adjustments, the coil volume ratio issue that causes it will not be an issue with the equipment you listed.

[catmanacman]

i would put a xr13 heat pump on it, would probably be 14 seer and would be a matched system

[duckman06]

basically yeah, It will can use a different speed for heat mode, ac mode and continuous fan. Most newer equipment comes with a variable speed blower motor (x13 or ECM) and they use less power to operate than a traditional fixed speed or multispeed PSC (permanent split capacitor) motor. VS air handlers are used all the time on single stage hp, their are little savings in a 2 stage heat pump it is used mainly for increased comfort rather than a return on investment over a single stage unit.

I agree with this statement! I install a lot of variable speed air handlers and furnaces with single stage heat pump and condensers. I recommend this for energy savings, better humdity control, quietness and helps with hot and cold spots just to list the main reasons. A proper sized system with variable speed indoor unit and single stage outdoor unit is ideal for most applications.

i would put a xr13 heat pump on it, would probably be 14 seer and would be a matched system

Agreed! I think the last XR 13 head pump I installed with that air handler was rated at 14 seer plus. It all depends on the size heat pump you have outside as well. To original poster. What size heat pump will be installed?

[SqueakyDog]

Agreed! I think the last XR 13 head pump I installed with that air handler was rated at 14 seer plus. It all depends on the size heat pump you have outside as well. To original poster. What size heat pump will be installed?

2-ton after insulation/window updates after home energy audit.

I'm still confused though? I probably missed something along the way, but, what good does a VS AH do for you if your HP is a single-stage? Heat or cool mode?