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Thread: CVHF surging

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    18

    CVHF surging

    would love some input on surging on a trane cvhf. Both pressure drops match specs, no excessive pumpouts on purge, ref. level slightly high, tower water temp at 65. Also wondering if condenser approach is an indication of air in system or just fouled tubes?? Any input greatly appreciated.... just getting into chiller work thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
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    Crap shoot with the kinda info you gave. Need real information to give you a real answer. Water temp in, water temp out of both barrels, SH, SC, DSH, pressures, LL temp, type refrigerant, approaches, amperages, % of FLA, etc.
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Pacifica, California
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    Both approaches should run pretty close to each other. Check your design delta T's. Make sure you have temp drop as well as pressure drop. Tubes could be fouled. Good rule of thumb is 10* @ full load. 1 degree less for every 10% short FLA.
    Go the extra mile, it's shorter than you think. UA in the Bay

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    In the south
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    It is usually one of three things. Air, condenser water to hot or fouled tubes. Condenser approach should be no more then 3 degrees at full load. Have you checked to see if your purge is actually working properly?

  5. #5
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    Oct 2005
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    tower water temp at 65??

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    in a tree looking in your window
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    Have you put an actual gauge on the machine or are you getting your "pressures" from the micro.
    If you dont stand behind our troops, please feel free...........to stand in front of them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    socal
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    No excessive pump outs ? What is your purge setting , auto, adaptive, on ,off.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
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    2,041
    Gotta luv the newbies?????
    " Chiller's Surging" whats up wiv it ?????
    With 65 degree tower water and who knows what load maybe its a low load surge ????
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    North Florida/South Georgia
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    In other words

    Please post a log............
    All my leon freaked out!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delaware
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    243
    AS the other guys mentioned, there is not enough info in your post to arrive at a firm answer. However; if we look at the cause of " surge" perhapps you will find the cause.

    Surge happens when the impeller "stalls" (will not pump) because the differential pressures (between Evap and Cond) are greater than the designed "Lift " of the impeller. In other words the impeller cannot lift the refrigerant vapor from the evap pressure to the cond. pressure.

    Anything that is causing your machine to have a higher than normal pressure (cond) OR, a lower than normal pressure (evap) can cause surge.

    AS mentioned also, do not depend on the micro to give you correct readings. Go for the service tools (gauges and thermo's) to double check.

    Good luck and keep us posted

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    USA
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    A stall is not a surge. Stalling occurs before surging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiller Guy View Post
    Surge happens when the impeller "stalls" (will not pump) because the differential pressures (between Evap and Cond) are greater than the designed "Lift " of the impeller. In other words the impeller cannot lift the refrigerant vapor from the evap pressure to the cond. pressure.
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    356
    I have a paper around here somewhere that describes what "York" put out as "rotating stall". It was primarily a low load condition that I was assured would not harm the machine. This was on a single wheel 123 chiller. It sounded like a loud grumbling sound, not a whole lot of amp fluctuation or pressure swings like you see with a "surge" surge. I'll have to dig it out of the archives, be a good excuse to go get another cold one!!!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Georgia
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    356
    Found it, let me get it scanned in and I'll be happy to send it to those interested, it is a very good description of what is going on in a stall condition.

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