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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Monticello, IL
    Posts
    27

    Trane/Tracer ZN520 & ZN510 Issues

    In one of the buildings we maintain we have 23 wall units that have either Tracer ZN520 or ZN510 boards in them. We have been having trouble with a couple of the units and narrowed the issue down to the boards one a ZN520 and the other a ZN510. We contacted Trane and they said that they have to install the boards and program them on site at a cost of $$$$.

    Would it be more feasible/economical for us to purchase the Rover tool and program them ourselves?

    Also, we plan on eventually connecting them via LON to our Schnieder Electric DDC. Anyone have good or bad experiences in doing this?

    (The building I am talking about use to be a small hospital and the county bought it. Most of the rooms with the fan coil units were patient rooms and are now offices.)
    Thanks,
    Doug
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 02-03-2013 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Removed pricing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,355
    If you plan to service the fan coils yourselves (your maintenance team) then I would recommend purchasing rover, if not then have Trane do it.
    Saving the world...one service call at a time.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,574

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tidewater Virginia
    Posts
    135
    You might want to compare the cost to implement Rover, Tracer and moving up the Schneider DDC; all three are likely to be significant investments, but I'm not sure I would want my techs to have access to the programming Rover can change (lots of mistakes can be made with little warning and very easily, requiring significant investment to correct). I work on a building a previous tech used as his Erector Set and FUBARed too much through a restricted access in Tracer. I can only imagine the problems if he had access to Rover.

    My $0.02 worth...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Carolina Piedmont Area
    Posts
    449
    Quote Originally Posted by bearfromobx View Post
    You might want to compare the cost to implement Rover, Tracer and moving up the Schneider DDC; all three are likely to be significant investments, but I'm not sure I would want my techs to have access to the programming Rover can change (lots of mistakes can be made with little warning and very easily, requiring significant investment to correct). I work on a building a previous tech used as his Erector Set and FUBARed too much through a restricted access in Tracer. I can only imagine the problems if he had access to Rover.

    My $0.02 worth...
    So what are you saying? That he should tear out the Trane controls and install another vendors product?

    I am just trying to clarify




    But I am still learning and looking for a new mentor.
    _______________________
    In a strict sense troubleshooting is not part of the repair..........understand the symptoms and you will find a solution.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Monticello, IL
    Posts
    27
    Let me explain our situation. Our county has never had a maintenance department until last year. My boss was hired in January and I was hired in June. We have 3 main buildings that we maintain; Court House, Jail, & an office building. The office building use to be a hospital and the county bought it just over a year ago.

    I worked for Barber-Coleman/Siebe Environmental Controls from 90-98 as an HVACR instructor; primarily on the old NW8000 system. I have been out of the industry since then. In the Office Building a small amount of Schnieder Electric controls were installed a few months prior to my hire. Currently the Trane fan coil units are each stand alone and in occupied mode 24/7. We would like to eventually connect the units to the Schnieder Electric system via LON allowing us to monitor, set schedules and some limited controls. (I am going to training on programming of the Schnieder Controls.) I imagine that we are at the point with these fan coil units that boards will continue to fail. What I would like to figure out is what the best long range approach is. (Of course this being a county we are limited on our resources and it takes time to get things approved.)

    Again, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tidewater Virginia
    Posts
    135
    Quote Originally Posted by alcomech View Post
    So what are you saying? That he should tear out the Trane controls and install another vendors product?

    I am just trying to clarify




    But I am still learning and looking for a new mentor.
    _______________________
    In a strict sense troubleshooting is not part of the repair..........understand the symptoms and you will find a solution.
    Not tear out, just integrate. Rover can access much deeper programming functions than a "user level" access program and is designed for experienced users, so there is much less warning that you are about to make a catestrophic change. I have and do work on buildings with major program and setup errors because someone was "playing" with settings they didn't understand and the cost to find and correct these problems can be very high. In comparison, the cost of implementing and integrating a better suited control set may be less expensive in the long run. Most control systems have some level of cross connection capability and wether this is enough depends on the functions you want and need to access. I'm just suggesting taking a little time and looking at the whole investment cost to get the best bang for your buck.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tidewater Virginia
    Posts
    135
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkerux View Post
    Let me explain our situation. Our county has never had a maintenance department until last year. My boss was hired in January and I was hired in June. We have 3 main buildings that we maintain; Court House, Jail, & an office building. The office building use to be a hospital and the county bought it just over a year ago.

    I worked for Barber-Coleman/Siebe Environmental Controls from 90-98 as an HVACR instructor; primarily on the old NW8000 system. I have been out of the industry since then. In the Office Building a small amount of Schnieder Electric controls were installed a few months prior to my hire. Currently the Trane fan coil units are each stand alone and in occupied mode 24/7. We would like to eventually connect the units to the Schnieder Electric system via LON allowing us to monitor, set schedules and some limited controls. (I am going to training on programming of the Schnieder Controls.) I imagine that we are at the point with these fan coil units that boards will continue to fail. What I would like to figure out is what the best long range approach is. (Of course this being a county we are limited on our resources and it takes time to get things approved.)

    Again, any insight would be greatly appreciated.
    So you're the poor guy who gets to find all the work arounds and bypasses put into the system to make it run... I feel for you dwkerux!
    I'd still suggest the long view if you feel your bosses and the "purses" upstairs are willing to look that way. I'd want Rover access to be limited to those who are familar with what is does , can do and how quickly the problems can occur. County buildings are likely to be in service for a LONG time and with few major retrofits, so everything that can be done to keep the system stable and operating to design is a good thing in my eyes. Mechanical and controls fail, act up and create new problems, but programming rarely causes new problems unless it is changed (the original problems are another matter - LOL); lets not take away from a part of the system which creates fewer problems...

    Two Suggestions: keep a notebook of the problems you find (mine is on computer and I move repairs from the ongoing list to the repaired list to track everything) and assume nothing until you prove it. Job security? You've got it in spades!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Monticello, IL
    Posts
    27
    Ha, yeah we have a looooong learning/discovery curve ahead of us. Three buildings, three different systems with very limited information and help.

    I have set up a PM program for the equipment in each of the buildings which I am sure will continue to evolve over the next few years. Not ever having a maintenance department before several things were/are a mess. The hospital knowing they were selling the building did not put much into maintenance the last few years. We do a lot of head scratching, and banging.

    If we get Rover it would only be available to the two of us in our department and I would try to keep it limited to just me. Is there decent documentation for for it explaining the basics of connecting, monitoring, programming, etc.?
    Thanks again bearfromobx

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tidewater Virginia
    Posts
    135
    Not that I've seen, but I usually use the on-site Tracer and bring in our senior controls techs with a Rover module when needed (I don't want to make the same mistakes I described!). If I get a chance, I'll ask Ray, our Trane controls guru about it.

    Is the hospital building using a one pass air flow system (common for infection and odor control in hospitals)? If so what are you going to use the building for and do you have plans to retrofit the HVAC systems? I think you could save enough utilities funds in a short period to pay for the retrofit if you are converting the building to office space or general duty. Food for thought...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Monticello, IL
    Posts
    27
    Sorry for the delayed response I have been out of town.

    The building, fortunately, is not set up as a one pass. We are using it for an office building and storage. The county's nursing home is connected to this building and they are using the laundry room.

    Thanks for the input.

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