SERVICE TECHS , ARE YOU A FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK SITTING ON THE BENCH ?

[timebuilder]

Balance would be great, but who determines whether there is to be balance or not?

If you can do a whole day of pms and not replace a single thing, I doff my hat to you. But, the subject post of this thread talks about the high earning potential and commission basis of compensation.

That's the problem I'm talking about.

Not the lady who has dry skin who needs a humidifier.

Not the one with a 27 year old system that needs to be replaced.

I'm talking about the kid who is being led in a particular direction by the lure of easy money, instead of doing what the customer actually needs.

[blitz]

how often does a bloody evap blower cap died? not very, so leave it alone. if you're company is pushing capacitors, that's pathetic. sell something actually useful in resi. leave the capacitor alone. blower gonna run. if it cooks the blower 6 months down the road, hey you could make more money. ... same with igniter...specially on older equipments. it breaks when it breaks. tell them the real condition about the equipment. sell them a whole new system, tell them due to equipment age it's wise to start putting money aside for possible future replacement. if the caps are clearly way out of tolerance, let the HO know and put it under your recommendation. let them decide.

resi furnace is the last thing HO think about when he's looking at his house. kitchen, bathroom, and appliance always gonna be number one. educate them, let them aware about the importance of looking after that box in the basement.

I had a guy that doesn't do jack all to his buderus combi system, no water treatment/softener, never been flushed either. "industrial" looking loft style condo, exposed mechanical and bricks, etc. now he's looking over 6k to replace his combi tank, PRV, relief valve, and expansion tank. yea, I have no pity on you. 60 psi in the boiler system, that's city water pressure, HXC pooched, extrol tank leaks at the seam, prv kept filling system at 40 psi, and relief didn't open at 60 psi. go figure.

[hurtinhvac]

how often does a bloody evap blower cap died? not very, so leave it alone. if you're company is pushing capacitors, that's pathetic. sell something actually useful in resi. leave the capacitor alone. blower gonna run. if it cooks the blower 6 months down the road, hey you could make more money. ...

That's just awful. I will continue to urge replacement of weak caps in an effort to save the motor.

Thanks for sharing...I guess.

[Tommy knocker]

how often does a bloody evap blower cap died? not very, so leave it alone. if you're company is pushing capacitors, that's pathetic. sell something actually useful in resi. leave the capacitor alone. blower gonna run. if it cooks the blower 6 months down the road, hey you could make more money. ... same with igniter...specially on older equipments. it breaks when it breaks. tell them the real condition about the equipment. sell them a whole new system, tell them due to equipment age it's wise to start putting money aside for possible future replacement. if the caps are clearly way out of tolerance, let the HO know and put it under your recommendation. let them decide.

resi furnace is the last thing HO think about when he's looking at his house. kitchen, bathroom, and appliance always gonna be number one. educate them, let them aware about the importance of looking after that box in the basement.

I had a guy that doesn't do jack all to his buderus combi system, no water treatment/softener, never been flushed either. "industrial" looking loft style condo, exposed mechanical and bricks, etc. now he's looking over 6k to replace his combi tank, PRV, relief valve, and expansion tank. yea, I have no pity on you. 60 psi in the boiler system, that's city water pressure, HXC pooched, extrol tank leaks at the seam, prv kept filling system at 40 psi, and relief didn't open at 60 psi. go figure.

Holy s---!!!!!!

[blitz]

well, there's a missed communication here. If the cap is out of tolerance, by all means, change it. but if you're pushed to sell capacitor, then yea I stand by what I say.

[timebuilder]

My normal approach is to replace an off-value or leaking cap, and then measure current and listen to the motor as it starts. A firm, swift spin up to full power, no problem. A noise or a slow start gets a recommend on the motor. I had a call just like this no more than a month ago. We got the motor approved, and they are off and running. A nursery/daycare "school" chain.

20 year old Borg oil furnace.

Did I try to sell them a new one? Nope.

It will be good for another 10 years.

[Joehvac25]

I have never once had a boss ask me to sell anything, we stock parts for when they break not to just "sell"

[tiger man]

Balance would be great, but who determines whether there is to be balance or not?

If you can do a whole day of pms and not replace a single thing, I doff my hat to you. But, the subject post of this thread talks about the high earning potential and commission basis of compensation.

That's the problem I'm talking about.

Not the lady who has dry skin who needs a humidifier.

Not the one with a 27 year old system that needs to be replaced.

I'm talking about the kid who is being led in a particular direction by the lure of easy money, instead of doing what the customer actually needs.

You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs

[timebuilder]

You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs

Sounds good to me.

As a side note, there really is less durability built into most consumer goods today. It is not an accident that folks will tell you that "they don't make 'em like they used to." It's because they don't.

On the other hand, getting something that is cutting edge is not always best. There is an old aviation expression that says, "never fly the "A" model of anything." It is because the "A." or the first model of any new aircraft is the one with the design flaws that get corrected and redesigned in the following models. The current 737 is several design generations better than the first round of 737 aircraft. Often, this is true with new and "better" design HVAC equipment. My theory is that we the consumer are being used to beta test new goods. For example, I am using Xp on this computer, but it is "service pack three."

This past week, I needed to get a new printer. My old C88+ had printed maybe thirty reams of paper over the last seven years. So, I ordered a new C88+ that will accept my bulk inking system, and I got it cheap under a loyalty program. Sometimes the newest and fanciest stuff is just not the best. The C88+ is the third generation of the C86 design, so like the 737, it is the one you want to fly.

Sometimes it is better to fix than sell, and that requires the knowledge and skill upon which the trade will survive. At least some of the companies are upfront about their business model, by putting "HVAC Sales" on their trucks.

Just don't expect any first round draft picks to be behind the wheel...

[John Markl]

You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs

[mark beiser]

how often does a bloody evap blower cap died?

In my area, very frequently!

Capacitors have become our most common failure item, more than all other parts combined, so we check them every time, and recommend replacement if they are weak.
The OEM GE capacitors most equipment manufacturers were using were bad enough, but since Chinese made capacitors have made there way into common use by OEMs, it's like capacitormageddon.

I've been using AmRad capacitors for several years now, and have not had any issues with them.

[mark beiser]

You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs

x2

[hurtinhvac]

You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs

No disrespect or insult intented, but mirrors must be a daily ordeal for you. We are all “sales techs.” What do you think you are doing every time you quote a repair and seek the customer’s approval for same? Did you hang a shingle out front that reads “No service charge, free parts and installation?” It just so happens that a malfunctioning component makes the repair an easy and anticipated sale. How many of you do NOT drive service trucks that state "Sales, Service and Installation?" Many of you probably have an "Ask Our Comfort Experts About Air Quality!!!"

It’s case by case and always with that customer’s particular needs in mind. If that is your reference point, your clients will always be treated fairly and professionally.

Why on earth should I need to know how to fix a deep fryer or ice machine in order to quote a 25 year old residential blower motor, while pointing out that the furnace has a 25 year old inducer, board and gas valve; and consideration towards replacing the system might be warranted before other major components fail? How proven do you have to be to change a blower motor? How much time and skill does it take to realize the board is not passing power to an inducer, ignitor or blower? How long does it take to replace a board? Child’s play…all of it.

We are simply trained to do it safely and with a timely parts infrastructure. Granted, every once in a while we catch a weird one – but 90% of the time it’s pretty routine and does not require that much “proving.” However it should always demand consideration of the customer’s long term interests - not just our short term repair receipts and stoked pride because we made something really old rise from the dead.

I don’t feel particularly smart, super skilled or experienced when I replace a thirty year old fan/limit switch in a grossly oversized and inefficient barn burner.. Conversely, I feel kind of silly. And responsible. My saving grace is always the knowledge that it was not my recommendation. I am a reasonably competent residential service tech. As such, it behooves me to inform my customers of all their options.

Now…I know what you truly meant by “sales techs” and I assure you I am not. However, in some cases, repairing old equipment can be equally as irresponsible as replacing parts that don’t need to be replaced. I have never informed a customer that their equipment could not be fixed. Not even a grounded compressor or cracked heat exchanger. And nearly every single time they arrive at replacement before I do, knowing very well how old their system is…hearing the furnace slightly concussing on in the middle of the night, the condenser whining rhythmically for years.

Balance. And ultimately, we will be the ones that determine whether there is balance or not.

[timebuilder]

I have to differ with you, my friend.

You are correct when you opine that a tech has to seek approval for a repair. But that is not what we are talking a bout, or, at least that is not what I am talking about.

A "sales tech" is a guy with only rudimentary skills who is given a mandate to earn his pay by selling. That is what commission-base sales are all about. It's like being a car salesman. Sure, sometimes someone needs to buy a car, BUT, when you take your car in for service, the last thing you expect is to hear your mechanic say, "that car is ten years old. I have a new car available, and I can get you into it tomorrow."

That's the difference.

...and it is who you work for that detemines where there will be balance, or only a sale.

[tiger man]

[/B]

No disrespect or insult intented, but mirrors must be a daily ordeal for you. We are all “sales techs.” What do you think you are doing every time you quote a repair and seek the customer’s approval for same? Did you hang a shingle out front that reads “No service charge, free parts and installation?” It just so happens that a malfunctioning component makes the repair an easy and anticipated sale. How many of you do NOT drive service trucks that state "Sales, Service and Installation?" Many of you probably have an "Ask Our Comfort Experts About Air Quality!!!"

It’s case by case and always with that customer’s particular needs in mind. If that is your reference point, your clients will always be treated fairly and professionally.

Why on earth should I need to know how to fix a deep fryer or ice machine in order to quote a 25 year old residential blower motor, while pointing out that the furnace has a 25 year old inducer, board and gas valve; and consideration towards replacing the system might be warranted before other major components fail? How proven do you have to be to change a blower motor? How much time and skill does it take to realize the board is not passing power to an inducer, ignitor or blower? How long does it take to replace a board? Child’s play…all of it.

We are simply trained to do it safely and with a timely parts infrastructure. Granted, every once in a while we catch a weird one – but 90% of the time it’s pretty routine and does not require that much “proving.” However it should always demand consideration of the customer’s long term interests - not just our short term repair receipts and stoked pride because we made something really old rise from the dead.

I don’t feel particularly smart, super skilled or experienced when I replace a thirty year old fan/limit switch in a grossly oversized and inefficient barn burner.. Conversely, I feel kind of silly. And responsible. My saving grace is always the knowledge that it was not my recommendation. I am a reasonably competent residential service tech. As such, it behooves me to inform my customers of all their options.

Now…I know what you truly meant by “sales techs” and I assure you I am not. However, in some cases, repairing old equipment can be equally as irresponsible as replacing parts that don’t need to be replaced. I have never informed a customer that their equipment could not be fixed. Not even a grounded compressor or cracked heat exchanger. And nearly every single time they arrive at replacement before I do, knowing very well how old their system is…hearing the furnace slightly concussing on in the middle of the night, the condenser whining rhythmically for years.

Balance. And ultimately, we will be the ones that determine whether there is balance or not.

Our vans just say 24 hour emergency service. And as far as parts go i just repair the furnace and tell the customer what parts were bad, no selling involved, no approval needed, just getbthe thing fixed and running like a top. If i feel the hsi needs to be replaced i just do it and ask questions later. Never been told by a customer that they dont want or need the hsi, or any other part for that matter. I dont have time to ask approval for every forty dollar part. Most of our customers are wealthy, and dont want to waste their time either discussing petty charges. We went to a customers house on thanksgiving day for a no heat on a furnace, replaced the bad relay,and noticed a sooted boiler ten feet away. He said i want it replaced. We said well give you a bid to replace the system, he said you dont understand, i dont care how much,you came out on thanksgiving day and got me heat, just put it in.

[hurtinhvac]

I have to differ with you, my friend.

You are correct when you opine that a tech has to seek approval for a repair. But that is not what we are talking a bout, or, at least that is not what I am talking about.



...and it is who you work for that detemines where there will be balance, or only a sale.

I do believe we are out of hairs to split, and I'll not attempt the atom; so I'll only quibble with this piece. I control who I work for.

Which (appropriately, I believe) distills this issue to one of personal responsibility and individual integrity. I still believe most folks tends towards honesty, and will gravitate to a fair climate when able. So even though they might land at a sales culture outfit; they will either leave that environment when they feel adequately trained or, as in my case, simply resist it while still demonstrating a value to the organization simply by being a competent and honest tech. My boss will at times grudgingly admit that our customers respond quite favorably to my patient, realistic and thorough explanation of all their options. Without a doubt, in many instances he would have much preferred I left with a signed contract and down payment. As Tiger Man alludes to, when they are ready for new equipment they will call us and feel good about it.

[timebuilder]

I do believe we are out of hairs to split, and I'll not attempt the atom; so I'll only quibble with this piece. I control who I work for.

Who you work for is determined by who is AVAILABLE for you to work for. Out of that group of potential contractors, you then whittle it down to who has openings.

Then you can work for the one that has an opening, IF you get hired.

So, while what you said IS true, it is tempered by the reality of the employment relationship being a two-way street, ultimately controlled by the needs of the owner.

Now, few of us can simply decide to not work until the employer with the correct moral/ethical business model has an opening, and decides that we might be the one who is the best hire.

So, while balance IS possible, it is not truly within our own control, until WE become the owner.

So, as employee techs, the balance is controlled by the person(s) for whom we labor. And for that reason, leadership in great service must come from the owners, and be influenced by us all.

[n.e.techjim]

your so right.its not about time its about the quality and workmanship.i got a nephew who works for a big company in corpis tx their top tech gets $19.00 an hr but the company service rate is compatible to the north east union rates of $95. to $133. an hour wow talking about making a killing on labor.

[TheChillerMan]

you were a general laborer.

Sort of. I was an apprentice for an 8 man residential light commercial union shop. Apprentices do what they're told.

[TheChillerMan]

WOW!
Excuse me while I get on my knees.

If that's where you're comfortable.