SERVICE TECHS , ARE YOU A FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK SITTING ON THE BENCH ?

[tiger man]

I know chiller guys who couldn't service a resi heat pump if their life depended on it. I was just at Johnson Controls in OK taking a commercial commissioning class with a bunch of 'chiller guys'. The guys had to take some of their tests three times before they could manage a passing grade. Major league my ass. Saying that you're a major league tech just because you work on chillers is giving yourself way too much credit. But i guess when no one is willing to give you any, you have to make yourself feel good somehow....

Agreed, a good tech is a good tech period just because youre a chillerman, doesnt mean you know everything about everything. I do mainly resi and light commercial, because thats all thats available in our area. We dont have chillers within two hours of this area. I dont know where these chiller guys get their confidence from.

[tiger man]

Since I'm not texting my response from my dumb phone, I'll extend my remarks.

I'm sure that there are many great, skilled, and ethical residential guys working in the trade. Many of them are Pro members here.

That said, the business model does not reward technical expertise in residential, because the rewards are commission based, and there is no incentive to diagnose and repair when your Co can have two guys show up the next day to install a brand new system. There is a big Co advertising on the Philly stations who talks about how many trucks he has, and how fast he can install a new system in cold weather.

Not a word about how fast a broken system can be repaired. That is not his mindset.

If you want young guys who are smart to enter this trade, then you have to figure out how to reward those smarts, otherwise, the trade will become populated with BS'ers. More so than it already is today.

Our company does not pay any commision to the techs or anyone else for that matter. I am strictly an open guy with no schedule except whatever emergency no heats come in that day.all the other techs are booked with clean and checks. All i do is diagnose and repair units, because our installers cant put a furnace in a house in a timely manner, so i have to repair the unit so it canwork until they have time to install the new unit the next month. We dont have any sales people, i a customer asks about new systems, a tech will give you prices andexplain he fundamentals of he new system. There must really be a trend in big companies hiring what i call sales techs. We have a small company of twenty people, andare very busy all year long.

[Tommy knocker]

Easy fellas. One chiller guy made a derogatory comment not all of us. Take your hurt feelings out on him. You start talking smack about chiller guys in general, the way he did resi guys, you will call down the thunder.

[TheChillerMan]

Not to be a dink, but if commercial guys and chiller guys are so great, why do i see some o them on this forum asking us lowly resi guys how their bryant evolution furnace operates, instead of reading the manual, or product data. With the new technology out for controls for modulating funaces and condensing boilers, there is plenty to learn in resi.

Laziness?

As an employee for the best manufacturer of HVAC equipment on the planet, I get to work on everything from Voyagers and IntelliPaks to screw chillers and centrifugals. Anyone that can figure out an IntelliPak can figure out anything.

[TheChillerMan]

I dont know where these chiller guys get their confidence from.

I have confidence in everything I do.

[TheChillerMan]

Easy fellas. One chiller guy made a derogatory comment not all of us. Take your hurt feelings out on him. You start talking smack about chiller guys in general, the way he did resi guys, you will call down the thunder.

Derogatory is a strong word. But what I said is what everyone who doesn't do residential really thinks. I don't know anyone that enjoys running new ducts under mobile homes or digging ditches for PVC lines for a pool heater or running new line sets through an attic on a 95 degree summer day. I've done all of that. It sucks. Now my job doesn't suck.

[TheChillerMan]

I guess arrogance is a requirement to work on chillers EH?
Most of the chiller BIG LEAGUE guys I have worked with are pompous sob's.
It is also good to keep in mind that everyone does not have the same opportunities as others, we still live in a very predudiced and materialistic society.
I have nothing but respect for anybody that has worked hard for what they have but it really doesen't matter what you work on as long as you are happy doing what you do and make a living out of it.

It's not arrogance it's confidence.

If you really want to be successful, you make your own opportunities. You don't just sit around and wait for them to fall in your lap, that'll never happen.

[TheChillerMan]

I know chiller guys who couldn't service a resi heat pump if their life depended on it. I was just at Johnson Controls in OK taking a commercial commissioning class with a bunch of 'chiller guys'. The guys had to take some of their tests three times before they could manage a passing grade. Major league my ass. Saying that you're a major league tech just because you work on chillers is giving yourself way too much credit. But i guess when no one is willing to give you any, you have to make yourself feel good somehow....

I give myself just the right amount of credit. I worked residential for 5 years. I moved on. I get plenty of credit from my employer every week when I see my paycheck. What I see in my paycheck I would never ever see if I were still doing residential. If you're a really good tech doing residential, you will get sick of it and board with it within a few years. You'll want to move on to bigger and better things. If not, then you're not motivated enough to do anything else, so you deserve to do resi forever.

[tiger man]

Laziness?

As an employee for the best manufacturer of HVAC equipment on the planet, I get to work on everything from Voyagers and IntelliPaks to screw chillers and centrifugals. Anyone that can figure out an IntelliPak can figure out anything.

Didnt mention laziness at all. Are the voyagers similar to the newer phoenix made by hot water products, we have worked on a number of those.

[tiger man]

I give myself just the right amount of credit. I worked residential for 5 years. I moved on. I get plenty of credit from my employer every week when I see my paycheck. What I see in my paycheck I would never ever see if I were still doing residential. If you're a really good tech doing residential, you will get sick of it and board with it within a few years. You'll want to move on to bigger and better things. If not, then you're not motivated enough to do anything else, so you deserve to do resi forever.

I love where i live, and like i said before if we had an opportunity to work on chillers we would tackle them. It has nothing to do with motivation. It has everything to do with quality of living in this area, schools for my kids, low crime, and literally a thousand lakes within an hours drive, and no traffic. Give me five years of working on what you work on, and i know i would be better than you, period. Dont knock resi guys, when thats all thats available in the area.

[tiger man]

Derogatory is a strong word. But what I said is what everyone who doesn't do residential really thinks. I don't know anyone that enjoys running new ducts under mobile homes or digging ditches for PVC lines for a pool heater or running new line sets through an attic on a 95 degree summer day. I've done all of that. It sucks. Now my job doesn't suck.

you must have been an installer not a tech if you were digging ditches, and running linesets, and running ductwork under a mobile home. No wonder you werent challenged, you were a general laborer.

[hurtinhvac]

Balance people...and less hyperbole (that means exaggeration for all the chiller guys)

Couple of thoughts: If you are new to the trade, in a larger metro area and don't know anyone you will almost certainly start in residential work. It is not dishonorable work and it can be challenging at times. If you can't handle general public consumers with goodness and grace despite all their issues then you need to be in an industrial or commercial setting. However the general public still needs HVAC people too. Honest ones like me who can diagnose, repair and sell.

I have no problem selling an elderly lady a humidifier if she tells me she feels dry and itchy in the winter. Yesterday, I came across an elderly lady on a fixed income whose 27 year old furnace simply needed a new relite module. It was easy to diagnose, a snap to repair. I sold her a new furnace. With all new shiny warrantied parts that are very unlikely to fail any time soon (no ECM motor ). And a number of brand new safeties which did not exist 30 years ago. I feel a hell of a lot better than if I threw in a new relite and the blower quit a month later. Tonight she has a new furnace on an in house payment plan and both of us have piece of mind. I have absolutely no problem pushing people to replace older systems. And by the way - how much service work do you think I could bank on from this old lady in the months and years to come if I sold her the entire system? Could be none...for the rest of her life. Good for her, bad for me. The key is it was all about her needs, her system. Had nothing to do with me. My system works fine and is paid for.

Nor am I shy about components that are failing. Caps out of spec, voltage drop across contactors or ignitors all white with a slight little stress mark. If I was sent to your Mom's house on a PM, would you not want me to point this out? This is what I'm supposed to do...is it not? "I can't say when it's going to fail, but it's on it's way and here is why..." "You are gambling an inconvenience and a trip charge if we have to make a separate trip, but it's a common repair and would almost certainly be same day if you were to put it off." If you were laid up in a hospital for a few weeks and asked me to check your furnace and found the ignitor suspect, would you not want me to grab the spare you keep off of your shelf and replace it real quick? 'Cause I ain't gonna be there with your wife and kids in the middle of a cold night if it goes, and it might be a while before I can get back.

Yes, it takes far less technological savvy in the resi setting and often it's really quite simple. But then again we have all the challenges inherent in homes and with people. And we have their best interests to contend with even as they rebel. Not to mention their personal safety, always. Not that you industrial folks do not, of course, but you often have the assistance of entire teams of maintenance crews and on site personnel. We have only us and the homeowner. Most of you chiller guys probably started in residential and are quick to exclaim you hated it...so glad to be out of it. Well someone still has to do it.

Anyway...

1. All respect to chiller, industrial, control etc guys. You generally know more than I and it is acknowledged.

2. Your out of state Mamas and someday your out of town daughters still need me...back off. I'm precisely the one you want knocking on the door.

[timebuilder]

Our company does not pay any commision to the techs or anyone else for that matter. I am strictly an open guy with no schedule except whatever emergency no heats come in that day.all the other techs are booked with clean and checks. All i do is diagnose and repair units, because our installers cant put a furnace in a house in a timely manner, so i have to repair the unit so it canwork until they have time to install the new unit the next month. We dont have any sales people, i a customer asks about new systems, a tech will give you prices andexplain he fundamentals of he new system. There must really be a trend in big companies hiring what i call sales techs. We have a small company of twenty people, andare very busy all year long.

Unfortunately, that is not the trend in residential.

[Freightshaker]

I have the utmost respect for our resi guys. Our company split in two for service resi/light commercial and commercial industrial. I have always been commercial industrial and it is just my cup of tea. Our residential guys deal with all kinds of stuff I would not want to deal with. If you ask our residential guys most of them do not want to deal with what I do. We have some residential guys making similar scale pay as our commercial industrial guys because they are top shelf techs. One of our residential guys had a injury when he was young and it hurts him to do commercial from the excessive walking. He enjoys having his van close by in a driveway and not having to lug stuff for miles. Another guy is the best residential tech support for carrier you could have. He has talked to engineering departments and helped them resolve problems with new models. He does not enjoy commercial as much as he does trouble shooting high end residential equipment in high dollar homes. The list goes on. Point is residential, commercial, industrial is not a scale of greatness. It is what you like, and where you live. Tomorrow I might be laying my hands on anything from a window unit to a centrifugal, but it will probably be broke dirty and a lot of pack/walk/rope. At least I hope... it's what I like and that's all that matters to me.

[tiger man]

Unfortunately, that is not the trend in residential.

Thats sad ,the country needs competent service techs not sales techs. No wonder resi guys get a bad rap. I always want to learn more, take it to the next level, but i dont have chillers or heavy commercial in this area. The only things commercial ive worked on are rooftops, walk in coolers, staged boilers in churchs, and apartment complexes, libraries, car dealerships, and wine cellars, and geothermal. If i ever get bored i would seek a change though.

[Tommy knocker]

I have the utmost respect for our resi guys. Our company split in two for service resi/light commercial and commercial industrial. I have always been commercial industrial and it is just my cup of tea. Our residential guys deal with all kinds of stuff I would not want to deal with. If you ask our residential guys most of them do not want to deal with what I do. We have some residential guys making similar scale pay as our commercial industrial guys because they are top shelf techs. One of our residential guys had a injury when he was young and it hurts him to do commercial from the excessive walking. He enjoys having his van close by in a driveway and not having to lug stuff for miles. Another guy is the best residential tech support for carrier you could have. He has talked to engineering departments and helped them resolve problems with new models. He does not enjoy commercial as much as he does trouble shooting high end residential equipment in high dollar homes. The list goes on. Point is residential, commercial, industrial is not a scale of greatness. It is what you like, and where you live. Tomorrow I might be laying my hands on anything from a window unit to a centrifugal, but it will probably be broke dirty and a lot of pack/walk/rope. At least I hope... it's what I like and that's all that matters to me.

Freightshaker is wise. He must of had some awsome journeymen to show him the path of enlightenment.

[timebuilder]

I have the utmost respect for our resi guys. Our company split in two for service resi/light commercial and commercial industrial. I have always been commercial industrial and it is just my cup of tea. Our residential guys deal with all kinds of stuff I would not want to deal with. If you ask our residential guys most of them do not want to deal with what I do. We have some residential guys making similar scale pay as our commercial industrial guys because they are top shelf techs. One of our residential guys had a injury when he was young and it hurts him to do commercial from the excessive walking. He enjoys having his van close by in a driveway and not having to lug stuff for miles. Another guy is the best residential tech support for carrier you could have. He has talked to engineering departments and helped them resolve problems with new models. He does not enjoy commercial as much as he does trouble shooting high end residential equipment in high dollar homes. The list goes on. Point is residential, commercial, industrial is not a scale of greatness. It is what you like, and where you live. Tomorrow I might be laying my hands on anything from a window unit to a centrifugal, but it will probably be broke dirty and a lot of pack/walk/rope. At least I hope... it's what I like and that's all that matters to me.

It's good to know this kind of Co is not yet extinct.

[timebuilder]

However the general public still needs HVAC people too. Honest ones like me who can diagnose, repair and sell.

...and my point is the companies that guys work for need to focus on serving the customer, which does not necessarily mean selling four new systems out of five service calls.

I have no problem selling an elderly lady a humidifier if she tells me she feels dry and itchy in the winter. Yesterday, I came across an elderly lady on a fixed income whose 27 year old furnace simply needed a new relite module. It was easy to diagnose, a snap to repair. I sold her a new furnace. With all new shiny warrantied parts that are very unlikely to fail any time soon (no ECM motor ). And a number of brand new safeties which did not exist 30 years ago. I feel a hell of a lot better than if I threw in a new relite and the blower quit a month later. Tonight she has a new furnace on an in house payment plan and both of us have piece of mind. I have absolutely no problem pushing people to replace older systems. And by the way - how much service work do you think I could bank on from this old lady in the months and years to come if I sold her the entire system? Could be none...for the rest of her life. Good for her, bad for me. The key is it was all about her needs, her system. Had nothing to do with me. My system works fine and is paid for.

Sure. You can sell a new system. Question: do you receive a mandate from your boss? If you are the boss, then you can decide on a case by case basis which clients should replace their system. Other resi techs are not the boss, and they will make squat unless they create an environment of urgency in the mind of the customer to get that new system. Once again, you are probably not that guy, but you are an exception.

Nor am I shy about components that are failing. Caps out of spec, voltage drop across contactors or ignitors all white with a slight little stress mark. If I was sent to your Mom's house on a PM, would you not want me to point this out? This is what I'm supposed to do...is it not? "I can't say when it's going to fail, but it's on it's way and here is why..." "You are gambling an inconvenience and a trip charge if we have to make a separate trip, but it's a common repair and would almost certainly be same day if you were to put it off." If you were laid up in a hospital for a few weeks and asked me to check your furnace and found the ignitor suspect, would you not want me to grab the spare you keep off of your shelf and replace it real quick? 'Cause I ain't gonna be there with your wife and kids in the middle of a cold night if it goes, and it might be a while before I can get back.

Sure, that sounds great. As long as you don't leave the shop and hear, "I want you to sell a new cap at every visit today where you don't quote a new system."

Anyway...

1. All respect to chiller, industrial, control etc guys. You generally know more than I and it is acknowledged.

2. Your out of state Mamas and someday your out of town daughters still need me...back off. I'm precisely the one you want knocking on the door.

My point is that if you take a guy and make him into a sales machine, what is the likelihood that he is being judicious in his new system recommends, or that he develops the ability to properly diagnose and repair? In essence, many outfits are training their techs to not service, but sell.

That's the way things seem to be moving in the industry....

[toocoolforschool]

I give myself just the right amount of credit. I worked residential for 5 years. I moved on. I get plenty of credit from my employer every week when I see my paycheck. What I see in my paycheck I would never ever see if I were still doing residential. If you're a really good tech doing residential, you will get sick of it and board with it within a few years. You'll want to move on to bigger and better things. If not, then you're not motivated enough to do anything else, so you deserve to do resi forever.

WOW!
Excuse me while I get on my knees.
It's all in the individual and what they are happy and comfortable doing.

[hurtinhvac]

My point is that if you take a guy and make him into a sales machine, what is the likelihood that he is being judicious in his new system recommends, or that he develops the ability to properly diagnose and repair? In essence, many outfits are training their techs to not service, but sell.

That's the way things seem to be moving in the industry....

Have to agree with all, of course. Except I hope it's not as bad as "the entire [residential] industry is moving in this direction."

I have only 21 months in the field with one contractor and can only hope that there are enough honest companies left for me to continue in the trade as I will not replace/sell good parts and would not even start at a company that has any such mandate.

I can reasonably expect to replace a cap or an ignitor once out of every 4-6 PMs, sometimes I do an entire day of PMs without replacing anything. Some days I run low on a particular cap if I haven't been by the shop in awhile. It just wouldn't work for me if I was mandated to sell something every call.

One little twist here: I work with techs who are simply too lazy to lay on the floor and check that hard to reach cap, and then take the time explain it to the customer, get authorization to replace it and walk back out to the truck to get a new one. A little incentive might help in that regard. As it stands, they get paid the same whether they check it or not. Then I catch the call a few weeks later and find a 7.5 cap measuring 2 something. In my experience, blower caps rarely up and die like condenser caps. They almost always gradually weaken. Same for ignitors, though I just read a RSES journal casting doubt on the accuracy of resistance readings, an ignitor turning bright white in that one little spot should at least be pointed out to the customer and noted.

In some of the homes we visit, that cap or ignitor could take another 30 minutes by the time we chase down the client, explain it (I always demonstrate where possibe, which takes even more time), write it up and get authorization, retrieve the part from the truck on the street and replace it. Some techs simply lack the integrity to bother with it. Maybe a five bucks would help with this.

Hell, I don't know. As I said...balance.