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  1. #131
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central NJ Area
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by TheChillerMan View Post
    Look lets face it. Residential work is the minor leagues. Class A minor league. Any yahoo can do residential work out of the trunk of his car. I've seen it.

    Now commercial work is triple-A.

    Chillers is major league.

    Don't like it? Work hard, learn more, and move up the ranks. I did.
    That's a bold statement. If you understand the principles, sequence of operation, electrical and refrigeration process; many techs, maybe not all, can handle themselves well. I've found that working on industrial and commercial equipment to be less stressful.

    Older Resi equipment is probably the easiest stuff to work on. Alot of the newer units that contain more proprietary parts and require more extensive training is going to change the game. Companies who hack equipment in are going to be having alot more problems with these newer products. Just considering the enviroment you have to work on resi equipment and the lack of inspections i encounter is sometimes appaualing. I've refused to work on equipment numerous times because i knew i be married to it once i touched it. Most Commerical and industrial products are setup properly, wires and other things are labled. manuals are where they should be ect. If you know how to use your tools, brain and know how products works your on your way to the top as long as your attitude is positive.

    Example:
    I recently worked in a 1 year old gated community, 55+ in NJ. The furnaces/5 Ton Condenser was tripping on limit because at the lack of a bottom return plenum or at least having the return taking from the left and the right side of the furnce. Filter driers installed backwards, humidstats installed right next the the humidifers, A/C and furnace condensate shared the same drain so you could fill the heat exchanger with condensate if a backup occured, SP was over 1.0", no backup drains under each system which were located in a second floor maint room. I could keep on going...I told the homeowner to call the builder because the systems need to be removed and reinstalled properly. I showed him the manual for the furnace on my ipad because he though i was full of it. I made a list of the problems and he paid the bill. And the subcoolings was way off... (no caps on the schrader serivice ports) At least i hope thats the only problem but i highly doubt it.

    Sorry for rambling.... but i see and have way more issues with Residential work then i ever had with commerical... Commerical can be more challanging but residential is more stressful. It does depend if you like to use your brain or not. Resi keeps you busy because the hacks make it rain.

  2. #132
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,554
    Quote Originally Posted by Nytefog View Post
    Sorry for rambling.... but i see and have way more issues with Residential work then i ever had with commerical... Commerical can be more challanging but residential is more stressful. It does depend if you like to use your brain or not. Resi keeps you busy because the hacks make it rain.

    That's great, but the hacks leep the percieved "right price" for resi work so low that it is difficult for an honest tech/company to make a living, leaving the money in resi to be made on installs, just like the one you described in your post.

    And, therein lies the problem.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  3. #133
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central NJ Area
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    That's great, but the hacks leep the percieved "right price" for resi work so low that it is difficult for an honest tech/company to make a living, leaving the money in resi to be made on installs, just like the one you described in your post.

    And, therein lies the problem.

    The hacks do cause the initail pricing to be low UNTIL the problems arise and then they have no choice to pay professionals to repair it properly at FLAT RATE NO BREAKS GIVEN. We give the customer no choice we tell them what needs to be done and gaurentee their problems will be rectified. what the saying." You get what you pay for".
    The funny things is that these things i find are basic simple procedures. If the installers were really lost they could pickup the literature and it basically is writting like " Installtion for Dumbies". Grant it equipment made now is now where near a durable as products made 30 years ago, which is the same for anything made now (CHINA!!). People want Walmart pricing for everything. They beleive they are getting the same "product" from all the estimates the get and never focus on the "service" and installtion techniques. It almost as if they thing it's like going online and locating the lowest price on a item they want (and hopefully is not a hong kong knockoff). Most of the cost of the install is labor which most people don't understand...until things start going wrong year after year . When the A/H leaks and the dry wall on the ceiling caves in. I think that my favorite finds in the summer. Winter is humidifiers and condensing furnaces discharged with viynl tubing outside. Damn! Those are my more favorite calls $145 Diagnostic to come and tell them the unti was install improperly and never inspected. Our pricing and reputation keep the price shopper from wasing out time. People who do their research understand and seek out reputable companies. Word of mouth is worth more then any marketing promotions you can buy. If your honest put your best effort foward and impress a customer you will have them for life and they WILL brag to their friends and family.

    My gripe is that In NJ there is NO HVAC licensing. Its a disgrace. Have the techs cant even use a combustion analyzer, don't even perform temps rise or static pressure test...gotta love that Infinity control!! Static Pressure is always spot on. I've checked it with my Magnehelic many times. Now with the Modualtion heat pumps and soon condesnser things are going to change. Those who still don't use superheat and subcooling to charge come ON. I've been doing this stuff since i was 10 years old and now i'm 32. The funny thing is i still see things that surprise me...

    One comment i hear often is "I know we should of had you guys put it in"....

    IF THEIR WAS SERIOUS PRESSURE FOR THE REQUIREMENT OF HVAC APPRENTICESHIPS AND LICENSING/TESTING THE INDUSTRY WOULD CHANGE WITH OUT A DOUBT. ALSO, IF THEY HAS STRICTER INSPECTION LAWS problems could be prevented... but we can only hope... i digress. Good evening

  4. #134
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,653
    Originally Posted by TheChillerMan

    Look lets face it. Residential work is the minor leagues. Class A minor league. Any yahoo can do residential work out of the trunk of his car. I've seen it.

    Now commercial work is triple-A.

    Chillers is major league.

    Don't like it? Work hard, learn more, and move up the ranks. I did.


    I call BS. Quoted poster likely can't handle the challenges of the general public and prefers to hind behind a chiller tower until back up arrives.

    While I generally agree that resi is a less demanding technical skill set; it nonetheless requires a soft skills proficiency. And based on the tone of the quoted post; the poster is severely lacking and, I speculate only; likely suffers other social deficiencies as well.

    Thankfully, bottom feeder, minor league, resi HVAC techs like me have the support and appreciation of almost every homeowner we come across.

  5. #135
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,554

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Nytefog View Post
    My gripe is that In NJ there is NO HVAC licensing. Its a disgrace. Have the techs cant even use a combustion analyzer, don't even perform temps rise or static pressure test...gotta love that Infinity control!! Static Pressure is always spot on. I've checked it with my Magnehelic many times. Now with the Modualtion heat pumps and soon condesnser things are going to change. Those who still don't use superheat and subcooling to charge come ON. I've been doing this stuff since i was 10 years old and now i'm 32. The funny thing is i still see things that surprise me...

    One comment i hear often is "I know we should of had you guys put it in"....

    IF THEIR WAS SERIOUS PRESSURE FOR THE REQUIREMENT OF HVAC APPRENTICESHIPS AND LICENSING/TESTING THE INDUSTRY WOULD CHANGE WITH OUT A DOUBT. ALSO, IF THEY HAS STRICTER INSPECTION LAWS problems could be prevented... but we can only hope... i digress. Good evening
    I talked with a guy at a Co in Cherry Hill last week. The word is that the licensing law that was passed a few years back will finally be implemented in May. We will see.

    PA has an Electrical Licensing law waiting for funding, which will mean s statewide license instead of the current patchwork of local licensing. HVAC could be next on the list, once that hurdle is out of the way.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  6. #136
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,554
    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinhvac View Post
    Thankfully, bottom feeder, minor league, resi HVAC techs like me have the support and appreciation of almost every homeowner we come across.
    You won't be working forever, and neither will I.

    So, what motivation is there for young guys to learn and become GOOD?

    Will they all be "sales techs" because the money is fast and good for selling new units to unsuspecting customers?

    Ask yourself: do you want to be associated with an industry where people are constantly dissatisfied with their systems, until they are fortunate enough to find a company with techs who are good enough to fix the bad installs, essentially forcing the homeowner to "pay twice?'

    I think the point of the chiller guy is that such an approach to bushiness would last about 15 minutes in commercial.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  7. #137
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Dallas Texas
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger man View Post
    you must have been an installer not a tech if you were digging ditches, and running linesets, and running ductwork under a mobile home. No wonder you werent challenged, you were a general laborer.
    There is always the possibility that you started as a tech. After a couple of years you became a contractor which means you are the installer, tech, salesman, etc. untill you hire. A well rounded tech would want to be able to handle whatever the job requires.

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