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  1. #79
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    Aug 2012
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    2,754
    Quote Originally Posted by TheChillerMan View Post
    I give myself just the right amount of credit. I worked residential for 5 years. I moved on. I get plenty of credit from my employer every week when I see my paycheck. What I see in my paycheck I would never ever see if I were still doing residential. If you're a really good tech doing residential, you will get sick of it and board with it within a few years. You'll want to move on to bigger and better things. If not, then you're not motivated enough to do anything else, so you deserve to do resi forever.
    WOW!
    Excuse me while I get on my knees.
    It's all in the individual and what they are happy and comfortable doing.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  2. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
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    3,653
    My point is that if you take a guy and make him into a sales machine, what is the likelihood that he is being judicious in his new system recommends, or that he develops the ability to properly diagnose and repair? In essence, many outfits are training their techs to not service, but sell.

    That's the way things seem to be moving in the industry....


    Have to agree with all, of course. Except I hope it's not as bad as "the entire [residential] industry is moving in this direction."

    I have only 21 months in the field with one contractor and can only hope that there are enough honest companies left for me to continue in the trade as I will not replace/sell good parts and would not even start at a company that has any such mandate.

    I can reasonably expect to replace a cap or an ignitor once out of every 4-6 PMs, sometimes I do an entire day of PMs without replacing anything. Some days I run low on a particular cap if I haven't been by the shop in awhile. It just wouldn't work for me if I was mandated to sell something every call.

    One little twist here: I work with techs who are simply too lazy to lay on the floor and check that hard to reach cap, and then take the time explain it to the customer, get authorization to replace it and walk back out to the truck to get a new one. A little incentive might help in that regard. As it stands, they get paid the same whether they check it or not. Then I catch the call a few weeks later and find a 7.5 cap measuring 2 something. In my experience, blower caps rarely up and die like condenser caps. They almost always gradually weaken. Same for ignitors, though I just read a RSES journal casting doubt on the accuracy of resistance readings, an ignitor turning bright white in that one little spot should at least be pointed out to the customer and noted.

    In some of the homes we visit, that cap or ignitor could take another 30 minutes by the time we chase down the client, explain it (I always demonstrate where possibe, which takes even more time), write it up and get authorization, retrieve the part from the truck on the street and replace it. Some techs simply lack the integrity to bother with it. Maybe a five bucks would help with this.

    Hell, I don't know. As I said...balance.

  3. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    19,558
    Balance would be great, but who determines whether there is to be balance or not?

    If you can do a whole day of pms and not replace a single thing, I doff my hat to you. But, the subject post of this thread talks about the high earning potential and commission basis of compensation.

    That's the problem I'm talking about.

    Not the lady who has dry skin who needs a humidifier.

    Not the one with a 27 year old system that needs to be replaced.

    I'm talking about the kid who is being led in a particular direction by the lure of easy money, instead of doing what the customer actually needs.

  4. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
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    1,042
    how often does a bloody evap blower cap died? not very, so leave it alone. if you're company is pushing capacitors, that's pathetic. sell something actually useful in resi. leave the capacitor alone. blower gonna run. if it cooks the blower 6 months down the road, hey you could make more money. ... same with igniter...specially on older equipments. it breaks when it breaks. tell them the real condition about the equipment. sell them a whole new system, tell them due to equipment age it's wise to start putting money aside for possible future replacement. if the caps are clearly way out of tolerance, let the HO know and put it under your recommendation. let them decide.

    resi furnace is the last thing HO think about when he's looking at his house. kitchen, bathroom, and appliance always gonna be number one. educate them, let them aware about the importance of looking after that box in the basement.

    I had a guy that doesn't do jack all to his buderus combi system, no water treatment/softener, never been flushed either. "industrial" looking loft style condo, exposed mechanical and bricks, etc. now he's looking over 6k to replace his combi tank, PRV, relief valve, and expansion tank. yea, I have no pity on you. 60 psi in the boiler system, that's city water pressure, HXC pooched, extrol tank leaks at the seam, prv kept filling system at 40 psi, and relief didn't open at 60 psi. go figure.
    Parts Changer Extraordinaire
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Have tools and gauges, will travel.

    RIDGID|YELLOW JACKET|UEI|TESTO|STANLEY|CPS|VETO| KLEIN|MILWAUKEE|MASTERCRAFT|

  5. #83
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    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitz View Post
    how often does a bloody evap blower cap died? not very, so leave it alone. if you're company is pushing capacitors, that's pathetic. sell something actually useful in resi. leave the capacitor alone. blower gonna run. if it cooks the blower 6 months down the road, hey you could make more money. ...
    That's just awful. I will continue to urge replacement of weak caps in an effort to save the motor.

    Thanks for sharing...I guess.

  6. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Western KY
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    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by blitz View Post
    how often does a bloody evap blower cap died? not very, so leave it alone. if you're company is pushing capacitors, that's pathetic. sell something actually useful in resi. leave the capacitor alone. blower gonna run. if it cooks the blower 6 months down the road, hey you could make more money. ... same with igniter...specially on older equipments. it breaks when it breaks. tell them the real condition about the equipment. sell them a whole new system, tell them due to equipment age it's wise to start putting money aside for possible future replacement. if the caps are clearly way out of tolerance, let the HO know and put it under your recommendation. let them decide.

    resi furnace is the last thing HO think about when he's looking at his house. kitchen, bathroom, and appliance always gonna be number one. educate them, let them aware about the importance of looking after that box in the basement.

    I had a guy that doesn't do jack all to his buderus combi system, no water treatment/softener, never been flushed either. "industrial" looking loft style condo, exposed mechanical and bricks, etc. now he's looking over 6k to replace his combi tank, PRV, relief valve, and expansion tank. yea, I have no pity on you. 60 psi in the boiler system, that's city water pressure, HXC pooched, extrol tank leaks at the seam, prv kept filling system at 40 psi, and relief didn't open at 60 psi. go figure.
    Holy s---!!!!!!

  7. #85
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
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    1,042
    well, there's a missed communication here. If the cap is out of tolerance, by all means, change it. but if you're pushed to sell capacitor, then yea I stand by what I say.
    Parts Changer Extraordinaire
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Have tools and gauges, will travel.

    RIDGID|YELLOW JACKET|UEI|TESTO|STANLEY|CPS|VETO| KLEIN|MILWAUKEE|MASTERCRAFT|

  8. #86
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    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    My normal approach is to replace an off-value or leaking cap, and then measure current and listen to the motor as it starts. A firm, swift spin up to full power, no problem. A noise or a slow start gets a recommend on the motor. I had a call just like this no more than a month ago. We got the motor approved, and they are off and running. A nursery/daycare "school" chain.

    20 year old Borg oil furnace.

    Did I try to sell them a new one? Nope.

    It will be good for another 10 years.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  9. #87
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
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    3,589
    I have never once had a boss ask me to sell anything, we stock parts for when they break not to just "sell"

  10. #88
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    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
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    270
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Balance would be great, but who determines whether there is to be balance or not?

    If you can do a whole day of pms and not replace a single thing, I doff my hat to you. But, the subject post of this thread talks about the high earning potential and commission basis of compensation.

    That's the problem I'm talking about.

    Not the lady who has dry skin who needs a humidifier.

    Not the one with a 27 year old system that needs to be replaced.

    I'm talking about the kid who is being led in a particular direction by the lure of easy money, instead of doing what the customer actually needs.
    You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs

  11. #89
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger man View Post
    You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs
    Sounds good to me.

    As a side note, there really is less durability built into most consumer goods today. It is not an accident that folks will tell you that "they don't make 'em like they used to." It's because they don't.

    On the other hand, getting something that is cutting edge is not always best. There is an old aviation expression that says, "never fly the "A" model of anything." It is because the "A." or the first model of any new aircraft is the one with the design flaws that get corrected and redesigned in the following models. The current 737 is several design generations better than the first round of 737 aircraft. Often, this is true with new and "better" design HVAC equipment. My theory is that we the consumer are being used to beta test new goods. For example, I am using Xp on this computer, but it is "service pack three."

    This past week, I needed to get a new printer. My old C88+ had printed maybe thirty reams of paper over the last seven years. So, I ordered a new C88+ that will accept my bulk inking system, and I got it cheap under a loyalty program. Sometimes the newest and fanciest stuff is just not the best. The C88+ is the third generation of the C86 design, so like the 737, it is the one you want to fly.

    Sometimes it is better to fix than sell, and that requires the knowledge and skill upon which the trade will survive. At least some of the companies are upfront about their business model, by putting "HVAC Sales" on their trucks.

    Just don't expect any first round draft picks to be behind the wheel...
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger man View Post
    You should have to be a proven tech capable of tackling anything, and repairing anything before you eventhink about selling systems. We let our customers decide when they are ready to buy a new system. Most of the customers have been with us for over fifteen years and leave keys or give us their garage code to get in the house when they are gone. They trust us completely, and if we wanted could probably sell a lot more systems than we do. I dont like to sell, and feel their is enough profit in repairs. I have put inducers, blower motors, and gas valves on funaces over twenty years old lately, just to get the customers heat immediately. An guess what they replace thevsystem anyway a year or two down the road. I cant stand salestechs
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  13. #91
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    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by blitz View Post
    how often does a bloody evap blower cap died?
    In my area, very frequently!

    Capacitors have become our most common failure item, more than all other parts combined, so we check them every time, and recommend replacement if they are weak.
    The OEM GE capacitors most equipment manufacturers were using were bad enough, but since Chinese made capacitors have made there way into common use by OEMs, it's like capacitormageddon.

    I've been using AmRad capacitors for several years now, and have not had any issues with them.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

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