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Thread: Next refrigerant to replace 404a
01-23-2013, 10:40 AM #14
01-23-2013, 03:03 PM #15
01-23-2013, 09:02 PM #16
Thanks for the link PL. I wonder how long they will keep it European? I sure hope they don't develop something different to run parallel here in the US, but I guess it all comes down to money and gov't pressure. Maybe they want the Brits to run the bugs out before intro here... Anyone using or have experience with 407F?
01-23-2013, 09:05 PM #17
01-23-2013, 11:16 PM #18
01-24-2013, 12:01 AM #19
Thanks very much. I have a million more questions, but I'll do some research first.
01-24-2013, 10:11 AM #20
01-24-2013, 10:19 AM #21
01-24-2013, 08:35 PM #22Professional Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Per Honeywell's specs. the glide on there brand of R407f is from 4-11 degrees.
01-25-2013, 01:46 AM #23
404A is not being eliminated....there is no EPA mandate to phase out production. There are supermarket chains who have chosen to move to other refrigerants due to R-404A's relatively high global warming potential.
R-407A was originally created to replace R-502, so it's not a new refrigerant. All of the R-407 blends are made up of the same three components; R-32, R-125 and R-134A. Changing the percentages results in the different varieties.
R-438A (MO99) contains the same three components, but also has a small amount of Butane and Methyl Butane in its makeup, which improves its miscibility with mineral oil to the degree that in most applications you won't need to add any POE to the system.
Wal*Mart made R-407A their preferred refrigerant for all new installations well over a year ago. Food Lion as well, along with a number of other chains. Approximately 40% of all new supermarket racks being built are being supplied with R-407A. Other than a few isolated installations, there are virtually no supermarket chains using R-407F in new store installations.
There is a very slight increase in capacity with R-407F as compared to R-407A, but it also has a lower EER. It does a good job of mimicing R-22, even in its negative aspects...notably high discharge temperatures. In higher ambient temperature applications you will likely need to utilize demand cooling to prevent compressor overheating. R-407A does not have this problem.
In addition, it's a patented refrigerant that only Honeywell can manufacturer. As a result it not only carries a heftier price tag, but its availability is limited to only Honeywell distributors.
There isn't enough benefit with R-407F to outweigh the negatives; higher price, reduced access through distribution, and higher discharge temperatures.
01-25-2013, 08:05 AM #24
01-25-2013, 01:34 PM #25
01-27-2013, 09:43 PM #26Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- Plainfield IL