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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    California
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    2,065

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Denver , Co.
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    109
    Quote Originally Posted by ryan1088 View Post
    Of course they would get rid of it, it's a good widely used refrigerant. Only makes sense to get rid of it.

    On a serious note, I had heard some rumblings about that but I have no solid info.

    Profits must be down at the almighty Dupont
    Outlaw guns? only outlaws will have guns
    Those who live by the sword are SHOT by us who don't.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    124
    Thanks for the link PL. I wonder how long they will keep it European? I sure hope they don't develop something different to run parallel here in the US, but I guess it all comes down to money and gov't pressure. Maybe they want the Brits to run the bugs out before intro here... Anyone using or have experience with 407F?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
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    124
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoe View Post
    Yes r407f starting to be put into medium temp racks here .R407A ,C & F all made up of the same 3 gases just different percentages (R32,R125,R134A)
    Have you had any experience with this stuff?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helioson View Post
    Thanks for the link PL. I wonder how long they will keep it European? I sure hope they don't develop something different to run parallel here in the US, but I guess it all comes down to money and gov't pressure. Maybe they want the Brits to run the bugs out before intro here... Anyone using or have experience with 407F?
    It's here now, I've used it, it's in my van.

    One of our chain customers requirements is we use R407F on R22 systems that have lost its charge.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
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    124
    Thanks very much. I have a million more questions, but I'll do some research first.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Denver , Co.
    Posts
    109

    R407C

    Quote Originally Posted by Helioson View Post
    Thanks very much. I have a million more questions, but I'll do some research first.
    , POE only gas (R407C) , I just retrofitted a Walk in cooler with it , So far so good
    seems somewhat stable. we shall see.
    Outlaw guns? only outlaws will have guns
    Those who live by the sword are SHOT by us who don't.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,147
    Quote Originally Posted by IceVicious View Post
    , POE only gas (R407C) , I just retrofitted a Walk in cooler with it , So far so good
    seems somewhat stable. we shall see.
    did you have to change compressor to get mineral oil out? ?

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,209
    Per Honeywell's specs. the glide on there brand of R407f is from 4-11 degrees.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    719
    404A is not being eliminated....there is no EPA mandate to phase out production. There are supermarket chains who have chosen to move to other refrigerants due to R-404A's relatively high global warming potential.

    R-407A was originally created to replace R-502, so it's not a new refrigerant. All of the R-407 blends are made up of the same three components; R-32, R-125 and R-134A. Changing the percentages results in the different varieties.

    R-438A (MO99) contains the same three components, but also has a small amount of Butane and Methyl Butane in its makeup, which improves its miscibility with mineral oil to the degree that in most applications you won't need to add any POE to the system.

    Wal*Mart made R-407A their preferred refrigerant for all new installations well over a year ago. Food Lion as well, along with a number of other chains. Approximately 40% of all new supermarket racks being built are being supplied with R-407A. Other than a few isolated installations, there are virtually no supermarket chains using R-407F in new store installations.

    There is a very slight increase in capacity with R-407F as compared to R-407A, but it also has a lower EER. It does a good job of mimicing R-22, even in its negative aspects...notably high discharge temperatures. In higher ambient temperature applications you will likely need to utilize demand cooling to prevent compressor overheating. R-407A does not have this problem.

    In addition, it's a patented refrigerant that only Honeywell can manufacturer. As a result it not only carries a heftier price tag, but its availability is limited to only Honeywell distributors.

    There isn't enough benefit with R-407F to outweigh the negatives; higher price, reduced access through distribution, and higher discharge temperatures.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
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    2,065
    Quote Originally Posted by bunny View Post
    In higher ambient temperature applications you will likely need to utilize demand cooling to prevent compressor overheating. R-407A does not have this problem.
    Copeland doesn't agree with that statement.

    http://opi.emersonclimate.com/CPID/G...AEB/ae1287.pdf

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Denver , Co.
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapperhead View Post
    did you have to change compressor to get mineral oil out? ?
    Yes it was a new compressor and yes i drained min. and replaced with POE ,
    I WAS TOLD SOON ALL COMPRESSORS FROM COPELAND WILL HAVE POE , could BS not sure

    IceV
    Outlaw guns? only outlaws will have guns
    Those who live by the sword are SHOT by us who don't.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Plainfield IL
    Posts
    101
    Job security!

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