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Thread: THPRE

  1. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Wichita Ks
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    1,489
    did any one check to see if the coil is feeding 100%? such as a possible clogged distributor tube. I would want to compare pressures at coil versus outdoor unit. even though it may be airflow related don't assume it can't be a problem in side the coil, freon lines and so on. also verify the unit has the right compressor in it.

  2. #158
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    Jul 2009
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    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by beshvac View Post
    Absolutely wrong.....static pressure when properly measured and compared to manufacturer's data has nothing to do whether is a variable speed motor or not!!!!! It may "push" a close cfm at .9 static but its still WRONG.
    How am I wrong?
    You're missing my point. I was replying to the idea of trying to determine if the OP has proper airflow by static pressure measurements. Unless his measurements are off the charts that won't give us the answer.
    The whole idea of a variable speed ( also called "constant airflow motors") is to keep a constant amount of air flow under a wide range of static pressures. It is programmed to change the rpms needed to deliver the cfm selected. There is no manufacturers data that I know of that will tell you what CFM you will get under a particular static pressure with a variable speed motor. The only static pressure you might see in the literature if any will be a maximum allowed static pressure to where it can no longer maintain proper airflow. The only thing I've seen in writing so far has been from .8 to 1.0. tsp.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  3. #159
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    TRAIL,OREGON
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    68
    FREONRICK I know it is a copeland scroll compressor but that is all - also a coil problem is possible as the system has never worked. THPRE

  4. #160
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
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    5,090
    Honestly, although this is goodman, there is way to much cluster'd crap for this to be goodmans fault.

    Installed by a friend.
    Installed in a mobile home.
    Installed in a closet.
    No AHRI match as of yet.
    Installer can't figure it out.
    No Tech rep in area.
    Unusual static readings.
    Government rebates.
    Some weird government test that can be cheated.
    Homeowner trying to contact the manufacturer.
    Opened the refrigerant circuit more times than alot of systems see in their lifetime.
    Finally, 13 pages.

    Your relief is not through goodman.
    It is through the contractor.

    Me thinks:
    Your coil is wrong for the heat pump. Sized fine for cooling, not for heating.
    Your airflow is crap, compounding the issue.
    Your contractor called goodman, goodman told him they won't touch this abortion, because their up to their rear in their own abortions that they've created.

    Which is why goodman won't come out.

    I think I mentioned this earlier, but the reason they don't deal with you, is because they don't want to, and they don't have to. They want to talk to their customer (the dealer), not the dealers customer (you).

    The reason goodman can't help you, is because there is nothing wrong with their equipment. It's operating the way it should operate under the circumstances.

    Call a different individual out who has experience with goodman equipment.
    I've never heard of goodman refusing any warranty because a different contractor was used.
    Most likely, you have no labor warranty with goodman anyways, you have a 1 year labor with the contractor.

    OR for that matter, did anyone even register this equipment with goodman?
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  5. #161
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Ok, so how would you know what the static is unless you took a static pressure reading.

    It does also tell you if your going to be able to use a higher MERV filter or not.
    I didn't say static wasn't important in fact I said its "always good to know" but we're trying to determine if the OP has an airflow problem. Whether his tsp is .1 or .7 it it doesn't tell us what we need to know. Now if it was 1.5 that would tell us something but even his number's which are around .3 were really double that, it still doesn't tell us much. What if .3 is accurate but his system was set up for 1200 cfm in heating or its wired wrong & he's only getting 40% of the CFM because the system thinks its on fan only. His static pressure would look good even with too small of a duct system for the unit. There are just too many variables we don't know.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  6. #162
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    There is no manufacturers data that I know of that will tell you what CFM you will get under a particular static pressure with a variable speed motor.
    I'm not aware of any manufacturers that does not have blower performance charts for their VS blower equipped furnaces, either in the literature that comes with the unit, or available by other means.

    You should take some time to look over the blower performance charts many manufacturers supply with their VS blower equipped units.

    The charts are a little different than for standard blowers, because they have to give static pressure/CFM values for each of the motors airflow settings, so you have to be careful you are working off the correct part of the chart.

    Here is an example of the Service Facts for an American Standard furnace, blower performance charts start on page 12.
    http://markbeiser.com/HVAC/documents...2-9V-SF-1C.pdf
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #163
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    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    2,942
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    How am I wrong?
    . The only thing I've seen in writing so far has been from .8 to 1.0. tsp.

    Just produce the writing. Like I learned years ago....show me where its written that those static pressures are OK.

  8. #164
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    Oct 2005
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    2,270
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I didn't say static wasn't important in fact I said its "always good to know" but we're trying to determine if the OP has an airflow problem. Whether his tsp is .1 or .7 it it doesn't tell us what we need to know. Now if it was 1.5 that would tell us something but even his number's which are around .3 were really double that, it still doesn't tell us much. What if .3 is accurate but his system was set up for 1200 cfm in heating or its wired wrong & he's only getting 40% of the CFM because the system thinks its on fan only. His static pressure would look good even with too small of a duct system for the unit. There are just too many variables we don't know.
    Although the cfm values are constant on VS motors, the static pressure AND watts can be factored to calculate the cfm.

  9. #165
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    Oct 2005
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    2,270
    My office manager (who doubles as my wife) said that old AHRI data disappears off the website after the equipment is deemed obsolete and is gone from inventory. So it's not surprising that we can't verify the number.
    Last edited by crmont; 01-31-2013 at 10:27 PM.

  10. #166
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    3,260
    Quote Originally Posted by beshvac View Post
    Just produce the writing. Like I learned years ago....show me where its written that those static pressures are OK.
    If this picture uploaded its from a Ruud/Rheem VS AH installation booklet that states the motor can deliver constant airflow up to 1.0 static pressure.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  11. #167
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    I'm not aware of any manufacturers that does not have blower performance charts for their VS blower equipped furnaces, either in the literature that comes with the unit, or available by other means.

    You should take some time to look over the blower performance charts many manufacturers supply with their VS blower equipped units.

    The charts are a little different than for standard blowers, because they have to give static pressure/CFM values for each of the motors airflow settings, so you have to be careful you are working off the correct part of the chart.

    Here is an example of the Service Facts for an American Standard furnace, blower performance charts start on page 12.
    http://markbeiser.com/HVAC/documents...2-9V-SF-1C.pdf
    I've never installed a Trane & that's the first I've seen that shows any difference in CFM according to static pressure on a VS motor. If you look at the numbers from .1 all the way to .9 there's not much difference in CFM anyways. Maybe that's why most manufacturers don't post those numbers. If this were a the Trane unit in the booklet you posted & the OP's static was .9 it still would not be a major factor in determining his problem. I could upload some installation booklets from Goodman & Ruud & there's nothing in their literature that shows any difference according to static pressure.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  12. #168
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    68,317
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I didn't say static wasn't important in fact I said its "always good to know" but we're trying to determine if the OP has an airflow problem. Whether his tsp is .1 or .7 it it doesn't tell us what we need to know. Now if it was 1.5 that would tell us something but even his number's which are around .3 were really double that, it still doesn't tell us much. What if .3 is accurate but his system was set up for 1200 cfm in heating or its wired wrong & he's only getting 40% of the CFM because the system thinks its on fan only. His static pressure would look good even with too small of a duct system for the unit. There are just too many variables we don't know.
    York VS drop off after .6" static. Yes I know we're talking about a Goodman in this thread.

    Also hasn't been established yet if the Static rating on that blower includes the coil PD or not. If not, then the OPs static is much higher then he posted.
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  13. #169
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    Aug 2012
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    2,675
    Quote Originally Posted by THPRE View Post
    TOOCOOL -WHO DID NOT DO WELL IN SCHOOL- YOUR ANSWERS HAVE BEEN THE LEAST INFORMATIVE AND YOUR SUPPOSITIONS ARE ALL WRONG. AN EASY CURE IS TO JUST GO AWAY. THANKS THPRE. To the rest of you thanks for your thoughts and opinions and thanks for educating me. I think I need to wait untill I get some response from Goodman. CRMONT - special thanks to you , you dug in and asked intelligent questions. Gary, I may try your suggestion but every time I tried to talk cfm or velocity all the pros figuratively looked down their noses at me and said "we don't care about cfm,only static pressures". Thanks for the help! Don't worry TOOCOOL there is always welfare!
    OUCH that hurts.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

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