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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    Is that duct board I see? Not sheet metal? Could be warm moist air migrating from conditioned space and condensing inside the ductboard and saturating the fiberglass ductboard. I would still like to see a pic of the two water heaters and their vent pipes.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  2. #54
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,320
    if the system is all electric as this one is
    and ahu of heat pump is in the attic,
    it is highly unlikely that the two water
    heaters, also in the attic are gas.
    usually all electric includes hvac & w/heaters.
    if w/heaters are electric...there is no venting.

    not saying it isn't possible, just highly unlikely.

    so Chad...gas or electric water heaters?
    are you still emptying the dehumidifier as much as you
    were the first couple of days?
    is RH holding steady inside the house?
    are you leaving the dehumidifier on, or shutting
    if off and on?
    you should try leaving it on 24/7, so that the
    Rh removed stays removed. as the house
    dries, less Rh removal will mean less emptying
    out the dehumidifier.

    btw..there is nothing wrong with ductboard.

    best of luck
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    I missed the part about the home being all electric. Nobody is saying ductboard is bad. What I am saying is that hot humid air rises, and then condenses on anything that is below dew point temperature of that hot humid air. I remember reading about the older high velocity systems having this problem. They used to supply "plugs" for the supply vents to prevent the entire duct system from becoming saturated with moisture. Don't remember what they did to prevent it with newer systems.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  4. #56
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,320
    ...
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    Quote Originally Posted by energy_rater_La View Post
    ...
    What does a post with ... mean? You've done that a few times right after one of my postings and I don't understand what it is supposed to mean.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    So. NH
    Posts
    795
    I don't get the ... thing either and I don't think the OP ever confirmed the water heaters are electric but would guess ERLA's assumption is correct.
    I've also come to the conclusion this is a total DIY gone horribly wrong in many different areas. He took the money from the Chinese drywall lawsuit, tried to do it all himself and pocket some cash and failed.

    I think I'm done now.

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by stvc View Post
    I don't get the ... thing either and I don't think the OP ever confirmed the water heaters are electric but would guess ERLA's assumption is correct.
    I've also come to the conclusion this is a total DIY gone horribly wrong in many different areas. He took the money from the Chinese drywall lawsuit, tried to do it all himself and pocket some cash and failed.

    I think I'm done now.
    To everyone who has replied in a polite manner, thank you. To every other smart arse on here, up yours... especially you stvc. You call yourself a "professional member?" More like "HVAC snob" who gets his s@#^* and giggles from making other people feel ignorant. You cannot even begin to understand what me, my wife and two young daughters went through after we built a brand new house only to find out two years later that our house was basically worthless. We lived in a travel trailer in our backyard because we didn't know what the gases the drywall was producing was doing to our health. After we finally settled, I started remediating the home, with the help of a close friend who just happens to be a contractor, but with me using which subs I wanted. stvc, how can you say this AC system was a DIY gone wrong? I did everything I was supposed to. I let the AC company do what they do best....install a system. Isn't that what HVAC companies do? I didn't install this thing. Therefore it is not a DIY. Also, how in the hell would you know if I tried to pocket cash from the settlement or not? That is a little off subject and quite frankly a little personal. stvc, you're a complete tool and you are right where you need to be...hiding behind the screen of your computer insulting other people. To everyone else who has replied to my posts, thank you. I came to this forum hoping to find some answers because I was getting nowhere with the original installer. energy_rater_La, I'm with you......................I think I'm done now.

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    So. NH
    Posts
    795
    Sorry to hear all you have been through, but I was trying to help.

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,638
    Quote Originally Posted by clllclal View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. As for the first question, I do not have any fresh air ventilation system. As for the second question, I am built on a slab, so no crawlspace or basement. Also, as I stated in my original post, it seems that when the heater kicks on, the humidity in the house shoots up all of a sudden. I just don't understand this. How much does the ultra-aire 70h cost and how much would it cost to have it installed? Thanks again, everyone.

    Chad
    Bingo!
    Try this for a theory.
    The duct board exterior surfaces in the attic are below the dew point of the air in the home during evening hours. During the cold evenings, the attic and duct surfaces cool, moisture from the air in the home condenses inside the ducts on the cold surfaces of the duct board in the attic. While heating, the ducts warmed, the condensed moisture is evaporated and blown into the home. This raises the indoor humidity rapidly.
    I suggest operating the fan in the "on" mode enough to avoid the ducts from cooling below the dew point of the air in the home is currently +50^F. With ducts in a cold attic, you need to keep the duct surface above the dew point of the air in the home. The fact remains that you are not getting not getting enough fresh air into your home, but may not beable to avoid some condensation in attic ducts during cold weather. Operating you blower in "on" mode low speed on the coldest evenings will eliminate the considensation on the inside of the exterior duct surface of the ducts in the cold space.
    A clue to the amount of fresh air naturallly infiltrating your home. Four occupants in the 2,200 sqft. home should get 80 cfm of fresh air when the home is occupied at a minimum. This will purge indoor pollutants, renew oxygen, and keep the indoor dew +10^F above the outdoor dew point. Currently, your area is 50^F outside dew point. Expect the indoor dew point to be 60^F. At 75^F inside, expect 60%RH. The dehu will run a little to maintain <50%RH. When the outdoor dew point drops below 40^F, the dehu should not run if you are getting 80 cfm of fresh air passing through your home.
    Operate you fan "on" mode for a couple days to test "the condensation in the ducts" theroy.
    Keep us posted. Operating a bath exhaust 24/7 will also increase ventilation to reduce winter moisture problems.
    Most important is to keep the fresh air moving through the home during the calm warm times of the year to purge the indoor pollutants and renew oxygen. Unfortunately, you will need more dehumidification when the outdoor dew points are high. It is a small cost to pay for good indoor air quality.
    This is an excellent learning opportunity. Keep us posted.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    What TeddyBear said about running the fan in the "on" position is what the manual recommends also. Unico manual. If you're going to do that I would ask a contractor about whether or not you can replace the blower motor with an ECM motor. These motors are way more energy efficient than PSC motors, especially when in the lower "continuous" setting.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  11. #63
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    909
    A LOT of condensation on widows and sills.........Just curious...How many widows live with you? Maybe they're just sweating profusely because you made them widows!!

  12. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by BamaCool View Post
    A LOT of condensation on widows and sills.........Just curious...How many widows live with you? Maybe they're just sweating profusely because you made them widows!!
    Good one! As many times as I've read this post, I've never noticed that "n" not being there.

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Bingo!
    Try this for a theory.
    The duct board exterior surfaces in the attic are below the dew point of the air in the home during evening hours. During the cold evenings, the attic and duct surfaces cool, moisture from the air in the home condenses inside the ducts on the cold surfaces of the duct board in the attic. While heating, the ducts warmed, the condensed moisture is evaporated and blown into the home. This raises the indoor humidity rapidly.
    I suggest operating the fan in the "on" mode enough to avoid the ducts from cooling below the dew point of the air in the home is currently +50^F. With ducts in a cold attic, you need to keep the duct surface above the dew point of the air in the home. The fact remains that you are not getting not getting enough fresh air into your home, but may not beable to avoid some condensation in attic ducts during cold weather. Operating you blower in "on" mode low speed on the coldest evenings will eliminate the considensation on the inside of the exterior duct surface of the ducts in the cold space.
    A clue to the amount of fresh air naturallly infiltrating your home. Four occupants in the 2,200 sqft. home should get 80 cfm of fresh air when the home is occupied at a minimum. This will purge indoor pollutants, renew oxygen, and keep the indoor dew +10^F above the outdoor dew point. Currently, your area is 50^F outside dew point. Expect the indoor dew point to be 60^F. At 75^F inside, expect 60%RH. The dehu will run a little to maintain <50%RH. When the outdoor dew point drops below 40^F, the dehu should not run if you are getting 80 cfm of fresh air passing through your home.
    Operate you fan "on" mode for a couple days to test "the condensation in the ducts" theroy.
    Keep us posted. Operating a bath exhaust 24/7 will also increase ventilation to reduce winter moisture problems.
    Most important is to keep the fresh air moving through the home during the calm warm times of the year to purge the indoor pollutants and renew oxygen. Unfortunately, you will need more dehumidification when the outdoor dew points are high. It is a small cost to pay for good indoor air quality.
    This is an excellent learning opportunity. Keep us posted.
    Regards TB
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    What TeddyBear said about running the fan in the "on" position is what the manual recommends also. Unico manual. If you're going to do that I would ask a contractor about whether or not you can replace the blower motor with an ECM motor. These motors are way more energy efficient than PSC motors, especially when in the lower "continuous" setting.
    Thanks for the input. I will try that. So I set the heat to setpoint and when the temp. is satisfied, the heat will cut off but the fan will continuously blow? Take for instance at this point in time. The temp. outside is going to get around 72 degrees today. It will not be hot enough for the A/C to run or cold enough for the heat. Should I still let the fan run?

    Thanks again everyone

    Chad

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