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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    During cold weather with low outdoor dew points (<50^F), adequate fresh air change should maintain low inside humidity. Therefore a damp home during cold weather indicates inadeauate fresh air ventilation to purge indoor air pollutants and renew oxygen. As weather warms, fresh air infiltration, decreases. Fresh air ventilation is basic in any home when occupied.
    Yes, a dehumidifier is necessary when the outdoor dew points are +55^F to maintain <50%RH inside during low/no cooling load conditions.
    Ultra-Aires are the grand daddy of whole house dehumidifiers with the best air filters, lowest electrical usage (highest Energy Star rating) and most durable.
    I have worked for Ultra-Aire for 20 years. These are priced on the high end. Any distributor or contractor can order a unit from 800 533 7533.
    Thanks for the support.
    Regards TB
    Thanks for your reply. My home is roughly 2200 sq ft heated/cooled. Which model do you think that I would need, the 90?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by clllclal View Post
    Thanks for your reply. My home is roughly 2200 sq ft heated/cooled. Which model do you think that I would need, the 90?
    The UA 90H is OK. If you want minimal cost to install, the UA 70H will do the job. Use 6" fresh air inlet to the unit. How many occupants?
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  3. #29
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,188
    6" dampered fresh air inlet?
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    The UA 90H is OK. If you want minimal cost to install, the UA 70H will do the job. Use 6" fresh air inlet to the unit. How many occupants?
    Regards TB
    4 occupants. Is there a separate tstat for running the UA? Does the UA run through all of the existing ductwork? How noisy is the machine?

    Thanks

    Chad

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by clllclal View Post
    4 occupants. Is there a separate tstat for running the UA? Does the UA run through all of the existing ductwork? How noisy is the machine?

    Thanks

    Chad
    The UA line uses the DEH 3000 controller for controlling fresh air and %RH.
    Many duct options, Using all the a/c ducts to supply dry throughout the home. Noise is like a refrigerator. Isolating the UA with flex duct and sound board make the unit acceptable. It has a small a/c compressor and fan that is surrounded with an insulated cabenit. The fresh air inlet is a dampered insulted 6" flex duct. You need 60-80 cfm of fresh when the home is occupied and the winds are calm.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,192
    I've just read this, and what I find odd is his outdoor temps of 40F just do not equate to massive humidity collection on the windows... assuming his cooking hood is vented to the outside, not just blowing back into the kitchen, moisture has to be coming in from somewhere. turning on the heat should NOT raise the humidity level, it should lower it. if a HUMIDIFIER is in the furnace ductwork, that could account for it, as I've seen plenty of spray bar types installed with the humidistat locked full on... so as soon as temps rise, the thing starts spraying.
    I recommend to the homeowner to have a tech come look at the equipment to see if there is a humidifier on the furnace. and if so, where is the humidistat set?
    tight homes sure do hold on to moisture, but tight DUCTWORK should not amplify it... unless there is a moisture source. puddles of water in the winter just do not make sense to me.
    is this house insulated with icynene foam? is the attic sealed with foam? is the ductwork being soaked with water?
    I'm not convinced it's solely from living in the home building up moisture. 40F is just not cold enough to cause that kind of condensation on the windows... unless there is water being DUMPED into the house.
    those standalone dehumid's have a 3 gallon capacity... that's a LOT of winter humidity!
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by vstech View Post
    I've just read this, and what I find odd is his outdoor temps of 40F just do not equate to massive humidity collection on the windows... assuming his cooking hood is vented to the outside, not just blowing back into the kitchen, moisture has to be coming in from somewhere. turning on the heat should NOT raise the humidity level, it should lower it. if a HUMIDIFIER is in the furnace ductwork, that could account for it, as I've seen plenty of spray bar types installed with the humidistat locked full on... so as soon as temps rise, the thing starts spraying.
    I recommend to the homeowner to have a tech come look at the equipment to see if there is a humidifier on the furnace. and if so, where is the humidistat set?
    tight homes sure do hold on to moisture, but tight DUCTWORK should not amplify it... unless there is a moisture source. puddles of water in the winter just do not make sense to me.
    is this house insulated with icynene foam? is the attic sealed with foam? is the ductwork being soaked with water?
    I'm not convinced it's solely from living in the home building up moisture. 40F is just not cold enough to cause that kind of condensation on the windows... unless there is water being DUMPED into the house.
    those standalone dehumid's have a 3 gallon capacity... that's a LOT of winter humidity!
    Thanks for all of the replies. My home is not insulated with foam, but with sprayed cellulose in the walls and blown cellulose in the attic. As far as I know, there is not a humidifier in the ductwork. Nothing fancy about my system, just a Trane 16 seer heat pump. What should be my next step to take? Should I have a test done to see if I have any leaks in the ductwork or to see if moisture is infiltrating anywhere? Sorry, but I don't know any of the terms used in the hvac business. Anyway, just say that checks out ok with no leaks. Would a whole house deumidifier, like the ultra aire 70 be my best bet? Again, I really appreciate all of the advice being given.

    Thanks

    Chad

  8. #34
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,188
    I'd think that the RH has been high for a while, at least since a/c hasn't been used.
    finally it built up to a point to manifest itself in condensation on the windows.
    in the summer, folks don't usually notice condensation because it is on the
    outside of the windows. it is usually noticable in the mornings & evenings depending
    upon how much sun the windows get.

    if cellulose in walls was wet blown...that is more humidity until it dries out. usually
    waiting several days before sheetrocking is done is sufficient...but without
    moisture meter readings..who knows? over time it will dry.

    once excessive moisture is removed, dehumidifier will not need to be emptied
    as often.

    it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a blower door test on the house, and duct leakage
    test for ductwork & returns. usually this isn't hvac contractor, but an energy rater
    or auditor.
    www.resnet.us lists most active raters nationwide.
    BPI and Comfort Institute also do these types of tests.

    getting the tests..is just part of the procedure.
    sealing leaks in house, ducts & returns still needs to be done.
    usually we (raters) test before and after to measure what was achieved.

    on an average 20-30% duct/return leakage isn't uncommon. so there
    almost always room for improvement.

    when you call OP, you want to have a diagnostic test of house & ducts/returns.
    explain the high RH issues. and any other issues you have.

    I have the ultra aire 70, my house is 1,000 sq ft.
    mine is tied into the supply plenum, and I built a box around it
    out of ductboard because it is located in a closet off the living room.
    I hardly notice it at all when it runs.

    btw...what about the water heater? I know tips is wanting to know.
    where is it located...what type.
    also, do you have recessed lights? inquiring minds want to know!

    best of luck
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by energy_rater_La View Post
    I'd think that the RH has been high for a while, at least since a/c hasn't been used.
    finally it built up to a point to manifest itself in condensation on the windows.
    in the summer, folks don't usually notice condensation because it is on the
    outside of the windows. it is usually noticable in the mornings & evenings depending
    upon how much sun the windows get.





    if cellulose in walls was wet blown...that is more humidity until it dries out. usually
    waiting several days before sheetrocking is done is sufficient...but without
    moisture meter readings..who knows? over time it will dry.

    once excessive moisture is removed, dehumidifier will not need to be emptied
    as often.

    it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a blower door test on the house, and duct leakage
    test for ductwork & returns. usually this isn't hvac contractor, but an energy rater
    or auditor.
    www.resnet.us lists most active raters nationwide.
    BPI and Comfort Institute also do these types of tests.

    getting the tests..is just part of the procedure.
    sealing leaks in house, ducts & returns still needs to be done.
    usually we (raters) test before and after to measure what was achieved.

    on an average 20-30% duct/return leakage isn't uncommon. so there
    almost always room for improvement.

    when you call OP, you want to have a diagnostic test of house & ducts/returns.
    explain the high RH issues. and any other issues you have.

    I have the ultra aire 70, my house is 1,000 sq ft.
    mine is tied into the supply plenum, and I built a box around it
    out of ductboard because it is located in a closet off the living room.
    I hardly notice it at all when it runs.

    btw...what about the water heater? I know tips is wanting to know.
    where is it located...what type.
    also, do you have recessed lights? inquiring minds want to know!

    best of luck
    Thanks for your input. Yes I do have recessed lights. As a matter of fact, that is all I have. Also, I have 2 water heaters that are located in the attic. They just look like ordinary water heaters to me.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    So. NH
    Posts
    746
    Since this is brand new what does your contractor think?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by stvc View Post
    Since this is brand new what does your contractor think?
    Actually this home was completely gutted about a year ago due to having Chinese drywall. Since I was basically the contractor and sub contracted everything out, I just don't know what to think. Obviously we never had this problem the first time we built this home. The house has a constant musty smell in between cooling and heating seasons, so I take it that this is where the high humidity is coming into play.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    So. NH
    Posts
    746
    Have you at least discussed this with your HVAC sub?

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,446
    Also consider that occupants release about .5 lbs. of moisture per hour into the space from respiration, presperation, and activities. 2 lbs. of moisture per hour into a 2,200 sqft of space will raise the %RH 7-8%RH/ hour if there is no fresh air moving through the home. If the home was absolutely air tight, the home would be 100%Rh. Of course it is not but you have an indication of a lack of fresh air ventilation. 60-80 cfm of fresh <50^F dew point outside air will purge indoor pollutants, renew oxygen, and keep the home dry.
    You need this amount of fresh air whenever the home is occupied to maintain high indoor air quality. When the outdoor dew points are +55^F, you need supplemental dehumidification to remove the moisture in the fresh air and from the occupants. During high cooling loads, the a/c will keep the home <50%RH. During low/no cooling loads, the dehumidifier will maintain <50%RH. Why is this so hard to figure out?
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

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