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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    That kind of freaks me out to be honest, Wrangler. Lol

    There has got to be a line drawn here somewhere. Why does a citizen need a flamethrower? Or a grenade?

    Where should that line be drawn? I believe that will be a central matter in this debate.

    What criteria, then, do we base either side of the argument on?

    Surely even gun advocates don't say that I should be allowed to have a fully weaponized AFV?
    Well, what is the COST of that "fully weaponized AFV"?

    I know that a REAL, Class 3 machine gun STARTS at about $5 grand and gets crazy expensive from there. I've seen some upwards of $50,000, PLUS there's a HUGE jump-around to legally purchase one.

    I'm perfectly OK with that and the process to obtain one.


    The problem, as has already been pointed out, ad nauseum, is that decent, law-abiding people are not the problem.

    I've got one of the rifles on the "ban" list. I've never killed anyone with it. Never even been tempted.

    I'm sure that is a common theme with 99.99999999999% (warning. made up statistic intentionally done to make a point) of gun owners across this country.

    The solution to the problem has to actually address THE PROBLEM.

    People who want to do harm to other people.
    \

    Any solution that doesn't address that is going to be useless.

  2. #54
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    Yes, and I think that most of that would revolve around how poorly our health care system deals with patients that have mental issues.

    I'm just trying to figure out what one needs and intends to do with such a weapon as a flamethrower, grenade or .50 cal machine guns.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    That kind of freaks me out to be honest, Wrangler. Lol

    There has got to be a line drawn here somewhere. Why does a citizen need a flamethrower? Or a grenade?

    Where should that line be drawn? I believe that will be a central matter in this debate.

    What criteria, then, do we base either side of the argument on?

    Surely even gun advocates don't say that I should be allowed to have a fully weaponized AFV?
    I think a grenade is classified as a WMD. Individuals aren't supposed to have them.
    Wonder how the cartels get them then?
    Like anything else, if you have enough money, you can acquire anything your heart may desire, that's how.

    Legally owned firearms don't bother me a bit. 99% of the people that own them, are really stand up folks. Especially the ones that own full auto/burst weapons. They have to jump through more hoops, and ring all the bells. They really don't pose a threat to the public.

  4. #56
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    Dillion Mini Gun



    If you can find one for sale, expect to pay upwards of $100,000.

    I located a parts kit still in auction, 2 bids, $45,000.


    http://www.dillonaero.com/

  5. #57
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    I don't necessarily disagree, Wrangler, but I can't imagine, then, why more criminals are not using grenades, if available.

    Certainly seems like an efficient device of mass mayhem. Is it cost prohibitive, or what?

    Seems like we should be seeing rampant grenade use based on the availability argument?

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree, Wrangler, but I can't imagine, then, why more criminals are not using grenades, if available.

    Certainly seems like an efficient
    device of mass mayhem. Is it cost prohibitive, or what?

    Seems like we should be seeing rampant grenade use based on the availability argument?


    Just guessing on this.

    Common criminals don't have those kinds of contacts?
    Maybe they can't/don't think creatively enough?
    Fear?
    Luck on our part?

  7. #59
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    I think you hit it on the head with contacts.

    Of course, I'm no expert, but here's my line of thinking. Cartels almost always contain or have connections with corrupt government officials.

    Your average person has no access.

    So, does it follow then that lack of availability has had some effect?

    I am not even close to proposing a solution, but it does seem like something to consider as the debate evolves.

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Yes, and I think that most of that would revolve around how poorly our health care system deals with patients that have mental issues.
    That's a PART of that problem.

    Add in the degradation of the family leading to the fact that dads are next to completely absent in children's lives, single mothers that have to work all the time to "make ends meet" and can't be there to guide their children at all, economic stresses, a piss poor justice system that releases recidivist criminals rather than imprisoning them like they should be, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

    There isn't a simple, one-size-fits-all solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out what one needs and intends to do with such a weapon as a flamethrower, grenade or .50 cal machine guns.
    FUN? It's so hard to accept that someone would own a gun or device that is just FUN to shoot?

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    So, does it follow then that lack of availability has had some effect?
    Certainly, if one could magically make all the guns disappear overnight, then all of the shootings would stop, overnight.

    That is neither legal nor practical, therefore SOME degree of access to the criminal element will persist, sad as that is to say.

  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    FUN? It's so hard to accept that someone would own a gun or device that is just FUN to shoot?
    I completely agree with the first part if your post. There are multiple things that may need addressing. I'm not so sure that any of us are even sure on what all of those things are.

    Ok, it's fun. I have to admit that I would support a ban on those weapons if that's all there is.

    The Constitutional provision isn't about fun.

  11. #63
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    Given the rampant gun mayhem at recent gun shows, perhaps it would be best to designate gun shows as gun-free zones.

  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Ok, it's fun. I have to admit that I would support a ban on those weapons if that's all there is.

    The Constitutional provision isn't about fun.
    When you start to restrict and segregate that right based upon a USE or NEED metric, then you've sounded the death knell for it.

    As long as the people who own them do so responsibly and legally then there is NO NEED for a ban on them.

    Legally owned Class 3 weapons are the LEAST likely to be used in a crime. IIRC, there have been exactly 2 crimes committed with legally owned Class 3 weapons.

    Both by police officers if it matters...

    The cost of ownership tends to place those weapons in a certain class of person's hands. You know, the "class" of people with class enough not to gun down kids with them.

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